Should I be concerned with new GCC's screaming?

Hello!
Exactly one week ago we brought home a hand fed, 9 week old
yellow-sided green cheek conure, who we selected from a local breeder.
I have previous experience with smaller birds (cockatiels and budgies), my husband has no "bird smarts".
Poe,
our beautiful baby boy is WONDERFUL. We had been discussing adding a
bird to our home for a couple of years, and actively researching gccs
for quite a few months now - we do not take adding a new family member
lightly, and wanted to make sure we were as prepared as we could be.
Poe
has surprised us both and is far surpassing our expectations. Within
the first few hours of being home, he was demanding cuddles - he now
spends the vast majority of his day curled up in my hair, "preening" me
while I work. He has already picked up on "step up", and squawks at me
when he needs to poop (pooping in only done in his house). He is
absolutely fearless, and will explore EVERYTHING - as well as chase the
cats off of the couch. He displays his gorgeous plumage whenever
someone says "Pretty Poe", and in the past 2 days has begun to mimic the
tempo of our voices when we say it and spread his wings for attention.
We've had him for 7 days. I am absolutely amazed at how quickly he has adjusted and become comfortable.
My
concern is that if I ever have to place him back in his house, he acts
as though it is the end of the world. We have ensured that he has a large home, with a variety of toys and different perches, delicious
foods to enjoy, and anything we could think of that he might want...
but he HATES being away from me, and there are times when - even though I
am home - I am unable to keep an eye on him. If I happen to be in the room, but doing something not "Bird Proof" he clambers all around his cage, squawking at me and having a generally BAD TIME.

I am wondering if
this is a stage that he will grow out of in time and is just because he
is so young and in a new environment, or if we will spend the next 25
years or so with him screaming bloody murder whenever he is not in
DIRECT contact with us.
Thanks!

He needs to learn independence. Run to him every time he screams and you will have a screaming bird for the next 25 years. You need to completely ignore him until he quiets down.

Give him lots of chewing and foraging toys and teach him that fun things are in the cage. One of our members has a good blog entry on teaching independence:
http://staringatbirdsandgoats.blogspot.com/2011/01/bird-tip-teach-independence-to-reduce.html

It's a lot like a crying baby. If they have a need, you must meet it. And you must give attention. But then when you put the baby in the crib and it fusses (but all needs are met) you should let them cry it out. They learn to self-sooth. Same with birds. You do need to meet the needs first.

An established screamer is horrid to live with.

BTW -

Thanks!

That was incredibly helpful!

A lot of socialization helps too. I take my babies on errands and stuff. They end up not so reactionary and don't scream as much.

listen to patDbunny she has bird smarts...lol...i would make going into the cage a good experience by giving a treat when putting poe in...lots of toys to destroy and foraging a good idea as well...you made a great choice in birds...hang in there


dusty

Thanks everyone!

We have started to slowly start socializing him with strangers, different noises and situations and the like - and we will start on teaching him some independence... Now!

Welcome!

I agree that the trick is to completely, and I do mean COMPLETELY ignore the screaming. With one proviso... if you are out of sight, it's possible that he's contact-calling, and will settle down if you periodically call out to him and let him know you are there. I'll answer the first call when I leave the room and very intermittent calls thereafter. But if it's screaming and carrying on, you really have to hunker down and let it happen. If you are in the room, don't even turn around. And it takes a long time for them to give it up, so you have to be persistently non-responsive.

The other exception to the "become a cold stone" approach for me is if it's a genuine alarm call. Scooter has a very distinctive rapid-fire ack-ack-ack-ack-ack call which he uses whenever I so much as move the vacuum cleaner in the room... I think it's GCC for "Danger Will Robinson, Danger!". If he makes that call when I'm out of the room, I'll return once to see if anything is really wrong. If he repeats it after that, I don't go back again, and he has not learned to use it to solicit attention.

Also try to reinforce the behavior you do want. If he's quiet, make a point to run in and tell him how good he is! Give him plenty of attention when he's not screaming in there. Give him a special treat when you put him inside, so it's self-rewarding to go in there.

Another thing you can do is try to teach a more acceptable call to solicit attention. Scotty, our Cape, now uses "Hey Bird!" and various variations on that theme as a contact/pay attention to me call. Scooter, less reliably, uses a come-here whistle or "Pretty Scoo-bird". I try to reinforce these usages as much as I can.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about Pretty Poe!

Pretty_Poe wrote:

My concern is that if I ever have to place him back in his house, he acts
as though it is the end of the world. We have ensured that he has a large home, with a variety of toys and different perches, delicious
foods to enjoy, and anything we could think of that he might want...
but he HATES being away from me, and there are times when - even though I
am home - I am unable to keep an eye on him. If I happen to be in the room, but doing something not "Bird Proof" he clambers all around his cage, squawking at me and having a generally BAD TIME.

First of all, welcome to Paradise!

Second, I agree with all the information seen above, so no need to rehash it again.

What I thought I would add concerns the section of your post above. The first question I would ask is do you put Poe in his cage at the same time everyday, for an extended period? If so, I went through this with Merlin early on. My suggestions include first, vary the times you put Poe away and the imes that he is in the cage. At random times when playing with him, put him in the cage for a few minutes, maybe longer, then take him out again. If he does not know for sure how long he will be in the cage and knows he gets to come back out again, it won't be so traumatic whan he goes into the cage each time. Also, if you make going back into the cage fun (either a favourite treat or toy), then he is more likely to go willingly. It worked for me and Merlin, hope it works for you and Poe! Just thoughts.

I agree with what everyone above has said. Totally and completely. 100%

I'd like to say that with you joining us, we're starting to be weighted fairly heavily in the direction of conures! Especially the magnificent little Green Cheeks! (cough*cough*ahem!) But I'm not biased. Not at all.

Moving on to business... As someone making her second go-round with a GCC (long, unpleasant story), I too would like to add a couple of things for your consideration. I think the screaming issue has been addressed quite well, so I'll not rehash it, but I have a few additional thoughts.

First of all, don't make the mistake that I did with JJ in allowing Poe (love the name!) to be a primarily "out of cage" bird to begin with. I believe that our birds are like children in the fact that they should learn their boundaries and how to be comfortable within them first. Once they know what space is theirs and are quite comfortable within it, we can gradually allow them more freedom to roam. If you do it backwards, just like with kids, when they've had all of the freedom they want then it's taken away, they're going to push back - and it isn't going to be pretty. (Hmm... maybe that's where I went wrong? ) So in the beginning, let him (make him) spend more time in his cage than out. I know it's HARD when our little GCC's are such wonderful little snuggle-bunnies! But believe me, it'll pay off in the long run when you have a well adjusted bird whose able to spend time alone.

The second thing is to be sure to distinguish when he's being "chattery" and content in his cage from when he's being naughty, noisy and unhappy. I know that Allie, my YS GCC will get in her cage at bedtime and squeak and squeal up a storm! I have a "video" of it on here somewhere... it's black because it's at night, but there's audio - haha! If Poe is doing that (or any other appropriate behavior) be sure and pay attention to him - stop and talk back in the case of the chattering. I may be telling you something you already know, and I'm reasonably sure that I'm repeating what others have already said, but the concept of reinforcing appropriate behaviors at the right time is so important... and the timing is the hardest part to master.

Just remember that we're ALL here for you... and there's nothing you can do that someone hasn't already done - and figured out a way to undo if necessary! (PatDBunny is usually the one who knows how to fix everyone!)

You're not in this alone!

ScooterNScotty wrote:

Another thing you can do is try to teach a more acceptable call to solicit attention. Scotty, our Cape, now uses "Hey Bird!" and various variations on that theme as a contact/pay attention to me call. Scooter, less reliably, uses a come-here whistle or "Pretty Scoo-bird". I try to reinforce these usages as much as I can.

I agree w/ SnS. I don't do any "formal" training with my birds; so I find "capturing" a behavior easier than teaching a new one. For instance, Ducky (sun conure) does this cute head bob with a little quacking noise. We starting doing a particular hand signal to him every time he did that behavior. He now does it when we do the hand signal. We also make excited noises at him and get really dramatic when he does the behavior so it's rewarding to him. Now a lot of times when he wants off his cage/attention instead of screaming he bobs and quacks like crazy.

Roger also brings up good techniques. Keep it interesting and unknown for the bird. In the "olden days" the advice was keep things stable and on a schedule as much as possible. Shoot - considering they live 20+ years that's impossible. Keep them guessing. Makes life more interesting and less of a struggle.

VickiNumbers wrote:

First of all, don't make the mistake that I did with JJ in allowing Poe (love the name!) to be a primarily "out of cage" bird to begin with. I believe that our birds are like children in the fact that they should learn their boundaries and how to be comfortable within them first. Once they know what space is theirs and are quite comfortable within it, we can gradually allow them more freedom to roam. If you do it backwards, just like with kids, when they've had all of the freedom they want then it's taken away, they're going to push back - and it isn't going to be pretty. (Hmm... maybe that's where I went wrong? ) So in the beginning, let him (make him) spend more time in his cage than out.

Sorry Numbers. Can't agree w/ you here. I don't have this problem. I seem to have a lot "less" screaming and other behavior problems when birds are out A LOT, including babies. I don't have struggles getting them back in the cage. I postulate that I don't have problems related to tons of time out of the cage because:
1. They're not stuck to my body when they're out of the cage; thus they learn they don't get more direct attention out of the cage vs. in the cage.
2. When they are out of the cage they're never allowed to wander - period - or they get locked into their cage; thus they learn to behave or get locked up.
3. When it's time to get locked into their cage generally they have a need of some sort that's relieved only in the cage. For instance - tired (the cage is their safe area), thirsty, hungry.
4. When it's time to get locked into their cage I usually (95%+ of the time?) give fresh food, fresh water, a novel food item, and a new "toy" of some sort (toy doesn't have to be fancy. A wad of paper can do); thus they learn going back in the cage is fun.
5. When they're locked in their cage while we're home I'll walk by and scritch through the bars, treat through the bars, talk through the bars, kiss toes clinging to the bars (SO LONG AS THEY'RE QUIET BEFORE AND DURING) and then I go about my business; thus they learn fun/good things happen when they're in the cage.
6. I don't struggle with getting them into the cage. When it's time, it's not an option. I'll physically put them back in which may include grabbing them by the body. There's no cajoling, there's no protracted, "please, pretty please, go back in the cage".

So, I guess I'm trying to express that there are different methods that work for different people (or I'm just trying to annoy Numbers ). You'll have to try different things and see what works for you and Poe.

VickiNumbers wrote:

The second thing is to be sure to distinguish when he's being "chattery" and content in his cage from when he's being naughty, noisy and unhappy. I know that Allie, my YS GCC will get in her cage at bedtime and squeak and squeal up a storm! I have a "video" of it on here somewhere... it's black because it's at night, but there's audio - haha! If Poe is doing that (or any other appropriate behavior) be sure and pay attention to him - stop and talk back in the case of the chattering. I may be telling you something you already know, and I'm reasonably sure that I'm repeating what others have already said, but the concept of reinforcing appropriate behaviors at the right time is so important... and the timing is the hardest part to master.

Yes, definitely.

VickiNumbers wrote:

(PatDBunny is usually the one who knows how to fix everyone!)

Boy. Where did that misconception come from? I'm not a fixer. I can't deal with established problems.

VickiNumbers wrote:

You're not in this alone!

Hi everyone!

Thank you all so much for the great tips!

We've decided that while we're not going to make an outright schedule for Poe, we are going to have a routine which will give him a bit more time IN his house than OUT of his house for the next little while (an hour in the mornings before my husband heads to work; an hour or two in the afternoons after I have completed some of my own work [I am self employed and generally work from home]; and an hour or two in the evenings after dinner). Once he has adjusted to that, I am going to start allowing him some "out of the cage but not on Mom" time every afternoon. We are hoping to work up to him being comfortable with having his door open and being able to climb around on his play gym and outside perches without trying to flutter to us all the time.

The last week with him, he has spent the majority of his time out of the cage, in direct contact with me throughout the day - which is where we were going wrong from the sounds of things.

We love his little chirps and calls to us (we've defined them as "chirpples": a combination chirp and grumble because of his gravelly voice) and definitely don't have a problem with that - it's the high pitched, grating screeches whenever we put him back in his house that were starting to concern us.

As of right now, Poe is sitting on his swing, trying to wreck havoc on his fruit kabob, chirppling contentedly - Looks like so far so good!

Again, thanks everyone for the great suggestions and advice!

I have found it most helpful to let them out first thing in the morning and get some energy out first as they've been cooped up all night and are well rested. Say - 1/2 hour to an hour out in the morning first thing. Then they can be more successful with cage time afterwards.

Yup!

First thing in the morning the hubby goes and uncovers Poe, Greets him ("Good Morning, Poe!" [we are aiming to have him say "Good Morning" when he wants to be uncovered instead of yelling at us]), makes a bowl of cereal and grabs Poe his breakfast, and they go enjoy breakfast and some early-morning-wake-up time together while I force myself out of bed.

Whoops. Sorry. Misunderstood your schedule as to when was in cage and when was out cage. ESL. Everyone here knows - ESL is me.