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 Last straw with Lorenzo

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idlepirate
Lovebird
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Join date : 2011-07-03
Age : 32
Location : UK
My Birds : Lorenzo - Blue Throat Conure
Posts : 107

PostSubject: Last straw with Lorenzo   Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:36 pm

Hey everyone,

Just seeking some advice or encouragement. Unfortunately I have to tell you guys how my relationship with Loro has deteriorated to the point where I am actually considering to give him away now to some bird farm or somewhere. Next week i have decided to clip his wings. we are neck on neck and everyday I am loosing love for him with his aggression issue. I have never ever had a problem like this with any other parrot and I don't understand what happened to him. He just snapped from one day to the next.
Loro has a new phase now of literally attacking me. I don't mean just biting when I come near. I mean full on ATTACK to kill. bomb dive, flying at me claws raging and beak ripping through my skin continuously until im forced to literally push him off or run away to towel him and he is in such a rage he just circles around and flies back. It looks like even if he got hurt he would not back down!
Things triggering this are literally everything i pick up or anything i do...which until about a month or 2 ago he had no problem with!

- blow-drying my hair. he used to completely ignore me. now he sees me pick it up and will attack, dare i turn it on he goes insane.

- sweeping the floor with a hand sweeper (you know those little hand brooms and then a little dustpan thing), i do this routinely every morning and have done so since I got Loro. He used to either ignore this or sit on my shoulder and just watch.
NOW he sees the broom, flies straight to the floor and attack the broom...and then me if I try and keep it from him (along with that all the flapping just makes all the dust and dirt fly everywhere and I have to start from scratch). I dont want him attacking it as its dirty.

-Ironing- new thing in the room really but the first few times he just kept trying to land on the ironing board and id chase him off due to him nearly frying himself on the iron. Now he just attacks me when he even sees the iron because i wont let him see for himself what it does!

Any form of doing anything on a table, he flies on to the table and i tell him to step up and take him back to his cage as there's things that are dangerous to him. the moment i sit back down he flies now not towards the table but at my arm and will literally take a big chunk out of it as in a "don't you dare tell me what i can or cannot do or you'll get this"

The bites are so vicious I bleed everytime and am all scratched up that by instinct I could really hurt him by trying to get him off me. but even so where once he fell to the floor, he just flew straight back at me and continued. like something out of "the birds".

Then he has a sweet moment again and acts like nothing happened. He does not back down.

I have to now towel him and lock him in the cage every time i want to do anything in the room, it is ridiculous. just so that i can do anything in peace!

My mom came to visit, she loves birds and was really looking forward to meeting lorenzo. He never had an issue with new people but the jealousy he had was insane. my mom learned that he didn't want to know her so she also ignored him, she tried to pick him up a few times and he bit her. I haven't actually seen a parrot that has never taken to my mom, shes had african greys and previous conures and they all loved her.
she walked past the cage to the bathroom one morning and he bombdived her and took 2 chunks out of her neck. not a nip, there was flesh ripped off and now she has 2 nice little scars to remember him by. I was completely shocked and didn't know what to say to her.
He did the same thing to a lady that looked after him while i was away and now they refuse to look after him because they are scared of him.

I feel bad to leave him in the cage all day and I know he doesnt realize why im so mad at him now and that i dont actually want to play with him like this and that his behaviour is causing him to get less attention and more cage time.

It could be the lack of a breeding partner, he seems to have more hormones then normal and is constantly trying to hump everything. I cannot afford a mate right now and have not got the space. right now im planning to go home end of the year for 2-3 months and haven't got anyone willing to look after him like this...let alone 2 birds!
he's even started doing the same to my fiance which he never once bit and always loved more then anyone. my fiance was only just washing his face and loro puffed up, eyes widened and he went for his ear and virtually pierced it!

I haven't got the nerve for such an aggressive because it makes me aggressive too and i will only end up screaming at him or flipping out myself.this on a daily basis is too much for me right now.

Im trying to find a vet to take him in for a wing clip next week. never thought i would really end up doing this but it might help. only worried that he flys to the floor and gets stuck getting back up while i am out because he is left free flying all day. but then he cant attack us anymore (when he realizes he cant fly maybe he wont even try) and he has to rely on us to come and make him step up to move him around.

Sorry if this makes me sound like a bad parrot owner but I have had many parrots before and have never been faced with this dr Jekyll/ mr Hyde personality, its like he has a switch inside him that turns him for a sweet kissy bird to this monster.

Besides clipping his wings, what else can I do? I do clicker train him occasionally but right now im losing the bond to want to, hes on a good diet, he has plenty of toys which he never plays with, he has foraging toys and is in the room with us always.
Would just liturally leaving him in his cage for 3 days straight or something have any effect? just talk to him through a cage and force him to entertain himself and watch everything go on around him but not attack?

If nothing works I will be forced to give him away which everyone is already complaining about "no you can't give him away...etc", but they dont have to deal with him 24/7 so they do not realize what's really going on. If I gave him to anyone they would soon regret it and he would end up being passed from home to home because he is too aggressive to deal with. either a bird farm with those massive aviaries and lots of birds to hang out with for company and maybe a breeding parter, or he has to change!



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ScooterNScotty
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 57
Location : Southern California
My Birds : Scooter
* "Normal" male Green-cheeked Conure
* (hatched 3/2010)

Scotty
*male Cape Parrot
*(HD unk ~2008)

Blanco (Caballo Blanco)
*Whitefaced male cockatiel
*(HD unk, found 4/2012)
Posts : 2248

PostSubject: Re: Last straw with Lorenzo   Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:59 pm

I definitely think it's worth clipping him. Not so much because it might change his behavior, but just to keep yourself and himself out of harm's way. If you can be confident you can move around the house without being attacked, that may help you be patient while you see if he's going to come out of this stage.

Has he been to the vet recently? It might be worth getting a checkup to make sure nothing is organically wrong with him.

Have you tried giving him longer periods of darkness?

I don't think locking him the cage will likely have any kind of training effect, but it's possible a time-out from the relationship would do you some good.

I'm also a fan of doing what's necessary to avoid getting bitten, and if that means minimizing the hands-on handling, so be it.
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kaeladedah
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 30
Location : North Carolina, USA
My Birds : Cheney Bird, Green Cheek Conure
Pigpen, Lutino Budgie
Nava, Lutino Lovebird
Oliver, Indian Ring Neck
Posts : 1449

PostSubject: Re: Last straw with Lorenzo   Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:33 am

CB is known as The Green Devil for a reason. And that reason happens to be his insane hormones and the resulting attacks.

I'd do a couple of things. First, I'd move the cage and disorient him a bit. CB seems to be a bit confused by a moving cage and takes a bit to adjust, and during this point he becomes relatively easy to handle. Second, increase the amount of dark he gets. CB went from 8 to 12 hours and it made a HUGE difference. Third, remove all nest-y type places or things that seem to trigger the hormones. CB has one particular toy that he can't have in his cage because he becomes super aggressive.
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RogerP
Scarlet Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-19
Age : 51
Location : Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
My Birds : ~Merlin - Maroon Bellied Conure
(Hatchdate May 15, 2010)

~Arthur - Red Bellied Parrot
(Hatchdate January 7, 2009, rescued October 7, 2011)

Posts : 813

PostSubject: Re: Last straw with Lorenzo   Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:30 am

Sorry to hear that you are having such problems. Do NOT apologize for wanting to do what is best for you and your bird. The reason Paradise was created was to allow for a safe place to discuss things like this without fear of judgement being placed on you.

You could try the extra darkness, and I totally agree that a change of location could help. So might a few days in his cage, which may make him appreciate the time out more. Anything to keep him a little "off-balance" would likely help him settle a bit. I also think that a clip would not be that horrible in this situation (looks around nervously for the Birdy Inquisition for the sacriligious statement Shocked ).

I have gone through this with Merlin on 3 separate occasions, where I let his feathers come in fully. Each time he became impossible to live with. I have found that a modified clip, with only the outer two primaries left, allows him to get around while still keeping him from becoming too outrageous.

You have had a good relationship in the past and it seems a shame to throw it away. That is not a judgement if you finally decide to do this, just an observation. Try everything you can think of first, and if you finally have to give him away, then so be it Sad , but the new owner may not have any success with him either, and it may start a string of new homes, which will only make the problem worse.

Good luck, keep us updated on your progress (or lack of). Hang in there! pray
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henpecked
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 62
Location : NC/Fla
My Birds : Jake hen YN (his)
Stacy hen YN (hers)
Kia male Panama
Kong hen Panama
Nitro male YN
Micky male Red Lored
Binkie hen YN
Many other Amazons
Posts : 1372

PostSubject: Re: Last straw with Lorenzo   Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:10 am

Hey Jess, sorry to hear of Lorenzo's issues. I'd give the clip a try, hope it works out for you. I know this is causing you a lot of stress, we feel your pain. Please keep us informed. Your friends
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crystalsbirdtoys
Senegal
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Join date : 2011-05-19
Location : Ottawa, Ontario
My Birds : African Grey - Merlin
Caique - Rosco
Cockatiel - Stryder
Posts : 381

PostSubject: Re: Last straw with Lorenzo   Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:54 pm

Our Caique, Rosco, is very much Jekyll/Hyde - and has been since a bad bird-sitting incident over 4 years ago. With patience and perseverence on our parts, he has gotten more neutral, and he will step up when he isn't full of anger (he has major trust issues, and it has been a long process to sitting in the room with him without worrying he will attack).

Just learn his body and vocal language - pay close attention to it, as it will allow you to protect yourself and work towards building up your relationship the way he will allow you to - he may turn to the "good" side fully, or you may have to play on the side of caution. It is possible to live with your little guy, but it will just take time after his first bought of aggression.

Rosco is generally hands off now, except for accepting food and head scratches, and stepping up for shower time. He does ask to step up when he wants to, so I take total advantage of this special snuggle time where he has decided to trust me. He's happy playing outside in the bird room, and appears generally happy with life - he just has some issues he's dealing with internally.

*sigh*

It did take several months after his first attack when we couldn't even let him out without him hunting us down. A switch turned, and it has never been the same.

Love him, it's just hard for him or us to totally trust each other Sad
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henpecked
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 62
Location : NC/Fla
My Birds : Jake hen YN (his)
Stacy hen YN (hers)
Kia male Panama
Kong hen Panama
Nitro male YN
Micky male Red Lored
Binkie hen YN
Many other Amazons
Posts : 1372

PostSubject: Re: Last straw with Lorenzo   Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:57 pm

Birds like this need to have their world turned on end. Somewhere,sometime things got messed up and these birds think they're in charge. If the bird is incharge there's no way things will work out with a human. Their nature is to test their environment to see if they're the "biggest" bird in the flock and should be leader. They need a major "shake up" to give you a chance to regain control. Changing homes,owners,cages,clipped wings, these are the type of events that are life changers that give you a chance to change the direction of your relationship. Most birds can adapt to being just another flock member, so long as there 's a established order in the flock. They don't have to be the big bird as long as someone is. Maybe a new owner is what is needed, but maybe you could turn things around with a new program. Shake things up. Don't keep trying the same things and expect different results.Be a dominant , decisive,confident leader. You can change things.
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ScooterNScotty
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 57
Location : Southern California
My Birds : Scooter
* "Normal" male Green-cheeked Conure
* (hatched 3/2010)

Scotty
*male Cape Parrot
*(HD unk ~2008)

Blanco (Caballo Blanco)
*Whitefaced male cockatiel
*(HD unk, found 4/2012)
Posts : 2248

PostSubject: Re: Last straw with Lorenzo   Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:29 pm

Hmmm... Henpecked just described horses rather well, which do have a very orchestrated herd structure. I've been under the impression that parrot flocks are much more fluid with different "leaders" in different circumstances and not all members strictly "followers". So I think there may be more room for negotiation.

I agree that the human needs to be respected and not bossed around, but I've had very little luck applying a "I am the head bird and you are to obey" approach to my GCC. The more I try to "boss him" the worse things get. A little diplomacy, and respect for his space, have gotten me a lot further. I don't let him get his way by biting me, but mostly I avoid getting bitten to the greatest extent possible.

I do agree that it's pretty hard to stop a bird from attacking when it can just fly at you and attack. It was frustrating enough when Scooter was in his Jaws phase, and I could easily put him on his cage and walk away and be safe. It must be a nightmare to be actively sought out and bitten. I think making big changes seems like a very reasonable place to start.

Please keep us posted.
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Margaret
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 46
Location : Chicago
My Birds : • Budgies: Mango, Blueberry, Plum, Sunny
• Cockatiels: Chico, Mickey
• Linnies: Venus and Mars

• Amazon, who was with us: Lucky
Posts : 1418

PostSubject: Re: Last straw with Lorenzo   Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:01 am

I'm so sorry Idlepirate about Lorenzo issues, I'm trying to do the same with Lucky- remind him each time I'm in charge and I'm the one he should be afraid to "bite"- not the other way around.

Kitchen gloves - the one you take things from oven - are temporary, only temporary reminder. I do clip his nails with those to not look like a "bird person", so when he is trying to show me, he is in charge I just wear those and there is no angry bird around. Lucky is getting quiet and not in the mood to fight.
I know it's not solution, but something to start with maybe.
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dusty
Scarlet Macaw
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Join date : 2011-06-19
Age : 72
Location : near london, ontario canada...out in the country
My Birds : congo african grey (coco)
blue fronted amazons (willie and vasgo)
sun conure (simon)
greencheeked conure (jack)
senegal (walter)
senegal (crockett)
goffin cockatoo (sammy)
moluccan cockatoo (mango)
severe macaw (cody)
quaker (yoshi)
Posts : 838

PostSubject: Re: Last straw with Lorenzo   Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:19 pm

whatever you do or decide will be the best for you and the bird...good luck



dusty
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