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patdbunny
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PostSubject: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:15 pm

Since it briefly came up on another thread. Here's some info:
http://www.libertywings.com/2009/information/birdtricksters-com/

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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:06 am

I HATE them.

I can't stand free flight. Just the idea of it gives me an anxiety attack.

(just a side note, Einstein just got nasty on one of his toys, the poor little guy got himself all tuckered out, huffing and puffing. The single most funnest thing I have ever seen Roz )

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LyzGrace
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:41 pm

Well whatever one has to say about birdtricks.com and the Womachs, I plan on being able to "free-flight" my birds and can't wait. Obviously there have to be crazy precautions as far as surroundings, training, and the relationship you have with your bird, but in my personal opinion I think it's great. I have nothing against those who don't and I even think sometime CLIPPING is a necessity for the safety of some people's birds, but if and when I feel that Yoshi and I have a good enough bird/handler relationship, I definitely want to make this something we can do.

wee wee wee wee

I think that "free flight" can be a loosely used term, too. Taking Yoshi to a park and letting him fly between me and my husband while wearing a harness is one thing, Taking a bird out to an open field and throwing them off your hand in hopes that they boomarang back to you is another.
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:01 pm

Freeflight is actually a dream for me. One day, I hope to achieve that.
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:09 pm

The boomerang thing, yeah, I would SO love to do that with my macaw but the thought terrifies me. This is a great vid about just that, had me in tears it was so beautiful and this couple does it with a handful of macaws at a time.



The difference being that all of their birds were hand weaned and they knew no other life than to be with these people, so the bond is very strong. Doing it with a rescue or a bird that you did not wean yourself would be risky I would think.

Once we move, we have a HUGE three story open barn at the new property that we are going to use for free flight. Its huge enough that they can soar and fly but contained enough that they won't take off to the next state. I can't wait.

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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:25 pm

That's so beautiful!!!! What an unbelievable bond, I can't wait until the day where I can do a fraction of this.

Yoshi has been flighted, but the breeder clipped him before he came to us. He's tried flying across the room or to us from a perch, but we've only been close enough for him to reach us a few times and he's still clumsy, most times he just slides across the floor. I'm dying for him to grow his primaries back so I can at least teach him some recall in the house without him being worried about falling.
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:29 pm

I would love to have a bird from birth, that is my one bucket wish, but I know it will never happen because in order to give this kind of care and work this kind of bond, you would have to be with that bird 24/7 for years. I mean, just the first few months alone you have to feed them every few hours by hand. I don't have the time for that and couldn't afford to leave my job to be able to do it.... but how amazing would that be to have a bird from birth stay with you all your life. I'm sure the bond is amazingly strong.

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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:49 am

I personally love birdtricks.com! Im thinking about buying their program. Or just trick train on my own.
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:53 am

hannahbird wrote:
I personally love birdtricks.com! Im thinking about buying their program. Or just trick train on my own.
I do follow Jamieleigh's parrot blog and feel that she has a lot of good information as an individual, but I would be careful about putting money toward birdtricks.com and maybe look at the link that Roz posted above. Most, if not all, of their information is widely known and shared elsewhere on the web, they just put fancy words to it, call it their own, and sell it for more money. They can get away with it because they're so widely marketed.

I'm not saying that it might not be helpful, I would just think twice about putting up money for it Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:02 pm

Youre probably right haha

Maybe I just have an addiction with buying useless things.... Wiggle
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:00 pm

Buy or get from the library:
Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor

Good book on the concepts of training anything.

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GlassOnion
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:09 pm

Hannah, don't waste your money on that crap.

I really suggest you look up Barbara Heinrich's Good Bird Inc. and Sally Blanchard's books.
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:24 pm

Thanks! I will look those up(:
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:28 pm

Parrot Tricks by Tani Robar is a good encyclopedia of tricks. I have it and it's notsomuch educational and teaching you HOW to train, it seems like it's more for people who are somewhat experienced and already have a handleable bird. But if you get your basics down this book has a ton of ideas for little things to teach and be good "show and tell" tricks Smile
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:48 pm

Okay cool(:

Woo! I love buying books. flappinhappy
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:46 pm

LyzGrace wrote:
Parrot Tricks by Tani Robar is a good encyclopedia of tricks. I have it and it's notsomuch educational and teaching you HOW to train, it seems like it's more for people who are somewhat experienced and already have a handleable bird. But if you get your basics down this book has a ton of ideas for little things to teach and be good "show and tell" tricks Smile

I have this book as well, and I agree Lyz, it is a great idea book, not so much about training technique, but a good "idea" book.
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:11 am

My thoughts.
For all it is worth

On birdtricks.com and bozos


http://shanlung.livejournal.com/91826.html
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Margaret
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:59 am

I don't even understand idea of free flight. Seriously.

It doesn't matter how social, how connected to you and how much your bird loves you. On the end, that's STILL A BIRD! He/she might come back 1000 times and that one more time... Why people are shocked when their parrots fly out and won't come back?
When I had a bunny and used to take him to forest, I used a ferret harness, because he was still ONLY BUNNY, who can run, when scared or JUST run. Why people think birds are different?

You want to make your parrot fly responsible? USE HARNESS!

And about training any live creatures by starving them, only circus monsters, who don't really love pets can do.

To think logically: My parents didn't starve me to teach me something, because it would be cruel. They use sweet treats as a reward for good behavior. Isn't it the same with our pets?
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:49 am

RogerP wrote:
LyzGrace wrote:
Parrot Tricks by Tani Robar is a good encyclopedia of tricks. I have it and it's notsomuch educational and teaching you HOW to train, it seems like it's more for people who are somewhat experienced and already have a handleable bird. But if you get your basics down this book has a ton of ideas for little things to teach and be good "show and tell" tricks Smile

I have this book as well, and I agree Lyz, it is a great idea book, not so much about training technique, but a good "idea" book.

FWIW it is right where I was when I started with birds. if you have some experience with other species, it kind of shows how birds connect the dots. But it isn't about basic handling.

I think free flight is always risky. Up to an individual how worth it the risk is, but the risk will always be there. That said, owning a bird is a risk to start with, but you can hedge your bets in different ways.
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:20 am

I like it whenever I read that free flight is very risky. As to how risky, it is even more risky than folks who never have done free flights can imagine. As to Bozo brothers marketing their instant free flight program via their CD, I can only spit on that with the contempt that deserved.

Folks like Margaret might even agree with me should they read my thoughts about free flight, difficult as it may be to imagine.
To Shanlung - How to do Free Flight Outside
shanlung: To Shanlung - How to do Free Flight Outside



I only advocate food management to keep birdies or beasties within the proper norm of their weight.

I find it anathema to with-hold food for training. That is utterly treating the birdies without the respect and courtesy due to intelligent sentient of standing equal to ourselves. They know that, and will treat you with that same lack of respect as what was demonstrated to them by the with holding of food.

The training that we have done was always done after their breakfast, and after other meals. In the course of training, it amused me to see them sometimes flying back to their bowls for a mouthful or two before flying back to me to resume the training.

On full stomachs, my cues were almost always done within split second and with military precision. They did it more for the fun. As often than not, they will take the sunflower treat offered to drop that to the ground.

Unlike the Bozo brothers who advocate you starve the birdie first so that they can better beg and grovel for the crumbs that you toss at them.

Hitler got the trains to run on time. That sound great, until you realised trains can run on time even without the means used by Hitler.

And use of harness by itself will not keep your birdie safe with you outside. It is the understanding of the bird, together with the appropriate use of the harness that will keep the birdie safe. Not the stuffing of the birdie in the harness. As explained in the links in the thread here
http://www.parrotparadiseforum.com/t1230-tinkerbell-ultralite-harness
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:00 pm

A risk is not a risk only when the negative consequence is realized.

A person free-flying their bird outside has a higher probability of losing that bird to an outdoor/flight-related accident or fly-off than a person using a harness.

A person using a harness outside has a higher probability of losing that bird to an outdoor/flight-related accident or a fly-off than a person using a properly closed carrier.

A person using a carrier outside has a higher probability of losing that bird to an accident or fly-off than a person with a bird that never goes outside.

A person who owns a bird has a 100% probability of losing that bird (unless he or she per-deceases it) which is 100% more risk than a person who owns no pets.

That's not to say that there is no argument for taking these risks, but there is a higher risk of mishap with free flight because you control fewer of the factors. It may be worth it, but the risk is there.

I have to say that I find gratuitous Hitler references extremely distasteful, which has put me in a slightly crabby mood, for which I apologize. Still, risk is a statistical thing, and I often see people who do risky things deny the risk until they fall off their horse helmetless and sustain a TBI, for example. The risk was the same before and after the fall.
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:07 pm

(TBI = Traumatic Brain Injury)

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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:27 pm

Training after a meal, hmm. I personally don't think there is an issue with training when there is a bit of hunger, a few hours after a meal for instance. But I was certainly not aware that results are just as good when training with a full stomach. Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sat Jan 21, 2012 6:49 pm

shanlung wrote:
I like it whenever I read that free flight is very risky. As to how risky, it is even more risky than folks who never have done free flights can imagine. As to Bozo brothers marketing their instant free flight program via their CD, I can only spit on that with the contempt that deserved.
I haven't look into the birdtricks.com program at length because I never planned on purchasing it, and I'm not defending or endorsing what they do and/or sell. But if I understand correctly, their program is NOT for teaching people to free-flight. I believe free-flight is done mostly with the Womach's performance birds. The program itself is for basic handling and trick training. Even if they do touch on free-flight, I'm certain they have a disclaimer that it is risky, just as you made this disclaimer in your own free-flight how-to on your blog.

Also, in response to the food moderation, I think that the suggestion is to trick train before a meal. This suggestion has been made on other forums and other threads by other parrot owners. Again, not something I necessarily agree with one way or the other, but I hardly think it's appropriate to relate this method to torturing your starved skin-and-bones bird to "grovel for the crumbs you throw at them," as you put it.


ScooterNScotty wrote:
A risk is not a risk only when the negative consequence is realized.

A person free-flying their bird outside has a higher probability of losing that bird to an outdoor/flight-related accident or fly-off than a person using a harness.

A person using a harness outside has a higher probability of losing that bird to an outdoor/flight-related accident or a fly-off than a person using a properly closed carrier.

A person using a carrier outside has a higher probability of losing that bird to an accident or fly-off than a person with a bird that never goes outside.

A person who owns a bird has a 100% probability of losing that bird (unless he or she per-deceases it) which is 100% more risk than a person who owns no pets.

That's not to say that there is no argument for taking these risks, but there is a higher risk of mishap with free flight because you control fewer of the factors. It may be worth it, but the risk is there.

I have to say that I find gratuitous Hitler references extremely distasteful, which has put me in a slightly crabby mood, for which I apologize. Still, risk is a statistical thing, and I often see people who do risky things deny the risk until they fall off their horse helmetless and sustain a TBI, for example. The risk was the same before and after the fall.
Thumbs-up to all of this post. I was going to try and cut this down the points I wanted to agree with, but it's all good.
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PostSubject: Re: birdtricks.com   Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:06 am

I recognise how I do things might be very different from what others might do.

If anything, my detailed documentations of all I have done over the last ten years or so showed all I never considered myself as a trainer. I am rather the trainee with my birdies being the real trainer.

Or even say things that folks go on to determine that I am insulting to them, even when that was the last thing on my mind.

I rather not be a source of unhappiness to people here.

Life is too short and I rather go smell roses.

I will leave this thread alone.

Folks can go it their way in the way that they wish.
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