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 SnS - Horse Slaughter

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patdbunny
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PostSubject: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:22 pm

Hey Deborah (and anyone else who's interested!),

My husband brought this article to my attention yesterday:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jun/23/slaughter-ban-sending-horses-across-borders/

and others:
http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfare/unwanted_horses/national.asp

I don't participate on any horse forums, so I don't know what the climate on the subject's like on those. Given Deborah's "we'll be ostracized" comment, I guess most people think banning horse slaughter's a good thing. Given the current economy, I'd think a lot more horses are going to just starve.

Out of curiosity, why don't you "prefer" Arabians? They seem the most parrot-like to me. I just don't know what I would do if they were cooperative every single day of their lives.

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ScooterNScotty
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:02 pm

I read a similar story on the recent findings of the consequences of the slaughter ban in "The Horse". http://www.thehorse.com/. Very worthwhile publication, btw. I seek the equivalent for parrots. Can you imagine what the climate would be like here if unwanted parrots had a ready market as food in foreign countries? Horse slaughter, especially for human consumption elsewhere, has the capability to push all the sensitive buttons, and many people become violently emotional about it.

Arabs... I don't dislike them, although I think you'll find most horse people either love them or hate them. Mostly I've never been into them because I've been into classical horse sports -- Show jumping, 3-day eventing and dressage -- and Arabs are NOT built to be good jumpers. The typical Arabian also is not built to be a natural for dressage, although recent breeding trends toward Sporthorse Arabs are changing that. Polish-bred arabs have a much more balanced conformation. What the typical non-sporthorse-bred Arabian excels at is Endurance. If I were into Endurance I'd be all over them.

A second reason I'm not a huge fan is size -- I'm 5'7" and most Arabs are both small and narrow-sided. I think in general people are often too biased towards hunormous horses -- when we first started importing the Warmbloods, we were bringing the 17.3hh horses home and the Europeans were laughing at us. But I need a horse with some size if I don't want to take rails down with my feet.

I also think Arabs, probably a lot like parrots, get into a lot of wrong hands because they are pretty. They tend to be sensitive and reactive and are not an ideal first horse. So they very often have poor training and serious behavior issues.

Ack gotta run! More later.
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:58 pm

Let's see... I don't think Arabians are any more or less likely to have personality or be opinionated than other breeds. They are, on average, at the hot end of the scale. Hotter horses are both more observant and more likely to become worriers if they don't feel someone else is in charge. They are also more likely to become confused by conflicting input and more likely to act out when confused. But they are basically horses like any other horses. Well, their backs are literally shorter (Arabians may have one fewer lumbar vertebra and one fewer rib than other horses), but other than that... they just don't happen to be particularly good at the stuff I like. And I don't love that dish-faced look the way many do.

Only the most submissive examples of any breed are going to always comply and never test the limits. It seems to me, if I want to make gross generalizations about species, that dogs figure out who the leader is and accept their position permanently, that horses are "wired" to constantly ask if they would be a better leader than the current leader, and that parrots don't really recognize a hierarchy at all.
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:36 pm

ScooterNScotty wrote:
A second reason I'm not a huge fan is size -- I'm 5'7" and most Arabs are both small and narrow-sided. I think in general people are often too biased towards hunormous horses -- when we first started importing the Warmbloods, we were bringing the 17.3hh horses home and the Europeans were laughing at us. But I need a horse with some size if I don't want to take rails down with my feet.
I'm not even 5'1" AND I'm afraid of heights, so these guys were perfect for me!

ScooterNScotty wrote:
I also think Arabs, probably a lot like parrots, get into a lot of wrong hands because they are pretty. They tend to be sensitive and reactive and are not an ideal first horse. So they very often have poor training and serious behavior issues.
I was buying the house, the horses were on the property (I didn't even know what breed they were), they didn't seem to hate people, so I got them conveyed with the property. Sensitive and reactive - yup! Remind me of parrots. "Poor training and serious behavior issues" - do bolting, biting, head throwing, pawing, jigging, prancing sideways like racehorses, not being able to move at a walk count?
"not an ideal first horse" - so I was told by the place Evil Chicken was taking lessons. They were putting bets each week as to whether or not I was going to show up with something broken.

ScooterNScotty wrote:
Hotter horses are both more observant and more likely to become worriers if they don't feel someone else is in charge.
Very interesting way to describe "hot". I like that description as "hot" usually leaves a lot to the imagination.

ScooterNScotty wrote:
They are also more likely to become confused by conflicting input and more likely to act out when confused.
Explains them very well and our relationship in the beginning.

ScooterNScotty wrote:
parrots don't really recognize a hierarchy at all.
So true! So true!

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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:04 am

You did a fine job with those horses for anyone, and for someone with limited experience, you did a remarkable job, from everything you've said! I do find my horse experience has given me a bit of insight with the birds, I'm guessing the reverse may also be true. I'd love to see pics of your horses sometime.

Afraid of heights, eh? Too funny! Smint is 16.2 and huge barreled and a perfect size for me. When I was in college I evented a little Connemara who was Arab-sized (14.3, I think she was, just technically a horse) and we made it work, but I rode XC with pretty darn short stirrups and she was a heck of a jumper. Tons and tons of fun.
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:10 am

"I do find my horse experience has given me a bit of insight with the birds, I'm guessing the reverse may also be true."
I would say the thing that I know from birds that helped me with the horses was not to push them into a panic. I think that probably kept me safe while we were working through all their issues. I did fall off the bay and broke my arm, but that was my fault and not due to his misbehavior. I ride bareback (remember, I'm not a good rider to begin with), it was morning, he was fresh, my husband went racing off on the grey, I was feeling MY "oats", and I spurred the bay into a gallop. . . I swear I fell off in slow motion. When I hit the ground he actually turned around, came back to me, looked at me on the ground like, "What the heck are you doing on the ground?! They're winning!"

Well, they're dirty yard horses, not pristine like your performance horses so be forgiving.

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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:45 am

I'm not all into pretty surroundings... they look pretty happy!
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:57 pm

Better pic of the 1000 pound cockatoo.

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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:08 pm

Where's the beak?
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:38 pm

I need to get some wings and turn him into a Pegasus.

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Margaret
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:49 am

Besides the fact, that they are beautiful, what is on the top of that "Cockatoo", Conures Julsiebean
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:36 pm

I keep trying to imagine the beak size of a 1000 pound cockatoo (and, I shudder to think, the decibel level of a screech Shocked )
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:32 pm


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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:45 pm

Yes, there has been quite a bit of discussion on both sides of the issue on my favorite horse forum. I think on balance, it's better to regulate it here that have horses either turned loose in the desert or shipped across the border in apalling conditions, but the horse community is quite polarized on the subject as one might guess.
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PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Fri Dec 02, 2011 9:34 pm

One of my neighbors woke up to find two horses tied to her front gate. And I've heard about horses ditched into the "wild" with open wounds from where their brands had been cut off.

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ScooterNScotty
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Join date : 2011-05-24
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*Whitefaced male cockatiel
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Posts : 2248

PostSubject: Re: SnS - Horse Slaughter   Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:40 pm

patdbunny wrote:
One of my neighbors woke up to find two horses tied to her front gate. And I've heard about horses ditched into the "wild" with open wounds from where their brands had been cut off.

Yep. I've also heard stories of people trailering out to a trailhead, unloading and going for a ride, coming back to find horses loaded onto the trailer and abandoned.

It would be lovely if every animal had a forever home, supply exactly matched demand, and people's circumstances were stable, but when it isn't an ideal world, sometimes the repercussions are ugly.
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