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 I'd rather regurgitate than step up!

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ScooterNScotty
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 56
Location : Southern California
My Birds : Scooter
* "Normal" male Green-cheeked Conure
* (hatched 3/2010)

Scotty
*male Cape Parrot
*(HD unk ~2008)

Blanco (Caballo Blanco)
*Whitefaced male cockatiel
*(HD unk, found 4/2012)
Posts : 2248

PostSubject: I'd rather regurgitate than step up!   Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:20 pm

OK, my one complaint about Scotty is that he tends to engage in passive resistance. It's not like I'm constantly trying to compel him to do things he doesn't want to do, but there are times, increasingly frequent times, when I offer him a place to step up and his response is to gently grab the offered finger or hand and proceed to think about, or actually, regurgitate. Other times, he just sits there and looks at me. I've never yet been unable to accomplish what I need to accomplish, but he has been getting more and more willing to spend time dithering around. I've tried treats and these have not been very effective (he's thinking more about food going the other way). I'm sure part of the picture is that we try to let Bill be the source of enrichment, so I'm mostly handling him to move him around or get him out of trouble. Maybe it is time for me to provide more exciting destinations. Aside form that, how would you handle this?
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henpecked
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 60
Location : NC/Fla
My Birds : Jake hen YN (his)
Stacy hen YN (hers)
Kia male Panama
Kong hen Panama
Nitro male YN
Micky male Red Lored
Binkie hen YN
Many other Amazons
Posts : 1372

PostSubject: Re: I'd rather regurgitate than step up!   Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:27 pm

Does he regurg because he loves you,does he do it for bill? or does it make you stop asking him to step up ?Could be he's way of getting you to let him be where he's at.Maybe regurg is like biting to say no,because you stop asking when he does it.Guess we need more info.Could be you normally ask him to step up to put him back in the cage ,try having him step up for more exciting things.Have you told him NO when he reaches for your finger?And tell him" what a good bird" when he does right. I guess alot of this is obvious but sometimes someone removed from the situation will see something.
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ScooterNScotty
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 56
Location : Southern California
My Birds : Scooter
* "Normal" male Green-cheeked Conure
* (hatched 3/2010)

Scotty
*male Cape Parrot
*(HD unk ~2008)

Blanco (Caballo Blanco)
*Whitefaced male cockatiel
*(HD unk, found 4/2012)
Posts : 2248

PostSubject: Re: I'd rather regurgitate than step up!   Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:37 pm

henpecked wrote:
Does he regurg because he loves you,does he do it for bill? or does it make you stop asking him to step up ?Could be he's way of getting you to let him be where he's at.Maybe regurg is like biting to say no,because you stop asking when he does it.Guess we need more info.

He doesn't do it to Bill and he does... love me. He comes to me and wants to be picked up quite often, he just prefers it on his terms, and left entirely to his druthers he will rush up my shoulder, burrow into my hair and whisper sweet nothings. My guess is that he started doing this to have an opportunity to make his offering. He has never regurgitated for Bill and rather is inclined to either chase him off or play active games with him. He has bitten Bill on a number of occasions when wanting to avoid interaction on chase him away, although over time this improved significantly from the beginning. He's never bitten me unless you count bruising an ear because he thinks running up my shoulder and grabbing my ear is fun -- i do NOT encourage that! When I approach him on the cagetop, he typically fluffs up softly and makes kiss sounds. When Bill does he runs over and either allows contact or does this sort of mock-battle-play thing they have going (of which I think I should disapprove given the biting, but he is technically Bill's bird). He will sometimes step up for Bill when asked and then gets to either sit in the living room with him, or sit with him and chew on his favorite foot-toy, wooden round-topped clothespin.

I'll also add that with either of us, he will echo back the words "Step up". Usually this means he is actually going to step up, but sometimes with me, he'll then grab and hold on to me, but not step up.

I've tried all along to handle him kind of minimally, but in truth I'm the primary caretaker and maybe it is time to start treating him more like my bird and hope that the relationship with Bill does not further degenerate in that scenario. The last bite had Bill threatening to get rid of him or stop interacting with him altogether, but they seem to have made up. In fact, Scotty was somewhat solicitous to him the first couple of interactions after several days of Bill not even wanting to look at him.

We have a complicated flock, avian and otherwise.
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henpecked
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 60
Location : NC/Fla
My Birds : Jake hen YN (his)
Stacy hen YN (hers)
Kia male Panama
Kong hen Panama
Nitro male YN
Micky male Red Lored
Binkie hen YN
Many other Amazons
Posts : 1372

PostSubject: Re: I'd rather regurgitate than step up!   Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:41 pm

Yes i agree. LOL Can Bill start taking him to the kitchen to fix treats,out to pick up the paper,help carry out the trash, you know exciting stuff that Momma dosen't do with him.? I would think that even if your relationship with him grows, Bill's relationship will also improve so long as he's involved.Maybe the 3rd wheel would be OK , that's the way it is around my house.Your his "mate " but Bill is part of the package.
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patdbunny
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 46
Location : San Diego County, California
Posts : 2083

PostSubject: Re: I'd rather regurgitate than step up!   Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:52 pm

ScooterNScotty wrote:
but sometimes with me, he'll then grab and hold on to me, but not step up.
If I really need a bird to step up and this happens I twist my hand and scoop the bird up onto my hand. I know that's not described really well.

I also do a lot of presenting my finger, bird climbs on finger, I make kissy noises and kiss the beak, and immediately put the bird back down and go about my business-entire interaction's about 30 seconds. It's not a formal exercise or anything, it's just something I do. It seems they find it entertaining and step up very ready most times.

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ScooterNScotty
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 56
Location : Southern California
My Birds : Scooter
* "Normal" male Green-cheeked Conure
* (hatched 3/2010)

Scotty
*male Cape Parrot
*(HD unk ~2008)

Blanco (Caballo Blanco)
*Whitefaced male cockatiel
*(HD unk, found 4/2012)
Posts : 2248

PostSubject: Re: I'd rather regurgitate than step up!   Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:22 pm

patdbunny wrote:

If I really need a bird to step up and this happens I twist my hand and scoop the bird up onto my hand. I know that's not described really well.

I also do a lot of presenting my finger, bird climbs on finger, I make kissy noises and kiss the beak, and immediately put the bird back down and go about my business-entire interaction's about 30 seconds. It's not a formal exercise or anything, it's just something I do. It seems they find it entertaining and step up very ready most times.

Actually, I'm currently doing both of those things! It's not so much that I can't get him when I need him, it's more that he's kind of wayward. Reminds me of when one of my lab students, a tall Norwegian on roller skates, was trying to court me during class. Uh, that's nice, but STOP IT!!!!!
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zazanomore
Hyacinth Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-18
Age : 25
Location : Thunder Bay, Ontario
My Birds : Einstein - Cockatiel [3]
Charlie Bird - Cockatiel [15]
Clyde - Budgie [4]
Bonnie - Budgie [4]
Madoc - Budgie [1]

Posts : 1474

PostSubject: Re: I'd rather regurgitate than step up!   Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:53 pm

ScooterNScotty wrote:
Reminds me of when one of my lab students, a
tall Norwegian on roller skates, was trying to court me during class.
Uh, that's nice, but STOP IT!!!!!

Shocked

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Vikki
Scarlet Macaw
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Join date : 2011-05-19
Age : 52
Location : BLAIRSTOWN NJ
My Birds : Sebastian - 7 yr old Harlequin Macaw
Arthur - 12 yr old Jardines Parrot
Pickle - 16 yr old Hahn's Macaw
Ecko - 26 yr old Hahn's Macaw

Plus the 180+ various bird from finch to Hyacinth at the rescue where I volunteer and live...
Posts : 811

PostSubject: Re: I'd rather regurgitate than step up!   Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:01 pm

We have this issue with many of our birds, mostly the smaller ones, like Scotty. And we are in the same position as you are, caregivers that need to get something done. At that point, we give them 2 tries. If they don't step up, we bodily pick them up and put them where we need them. Even with the big birds, if they become unresponsive or beligerent when we need to move them, we'll bodily move them, which is much easier because you just grab them around the neck from behind and lift them. A cape is big enough to do this too. I've done it to Jeanne's cape a few times. It doesn't hurt them at all (don't be rough about it) and after having to do it a few times, they tend to rather step up than be man handled.

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