If you want to help the US troops...

I come from a military family. My father served 20+ years, I grew up on military bases. Both grandfathers served, my husband served, my stepfather served, nearly every male uncle or distant male relation served. My sister served. My father in law served. Countless, truly, countless friends are currently serving. I'd love for anyone to point out how and why exactly I can't support these men and women without supporting the war. No, I strongly disagree with what they are "currently" being made to do, but if you think all the military does is bomb the middle east- WRONG.

Margaret- I don't know the circumstances in which you moved here. I know many friends joined to give their family a better life. Military provides housing and medical and for a young family that can make all the difference. A lot of people saw the military as a "ticket" out of a small, poor, uneducated southern town where generations before them have failed. Some people want to see the world and figure it is worth putting in 4 years to do so. Some people didn't make good enough grades in HS for college, and need the money because there aren't grants or scholarships for them, let alone a bank willing to give them a loan that wouldn't keep them in debt forever. You have to be willing to admit though, because you were able to come here and build for yourself- doesn't work out like that for everyone. For your victory there are several who couldn't. When we start judging how others should live based soley on our own life experiences...well that is how things fall apart and divide us.

Love you, Juls!!

If I werent running late right now, I'd say more. But for now, this will have to do.

LyzGrace wrote:

Love you, Juls!!

DITTO!!!

Hey Julsie - I meant no offense at all. Just throwing a point of view out there.

I actually am sensitive to what our military go through. I grew up in Coronado. It's a hard life and decision for them.

to you and your family.

And for the record all (I'm in the car, hubby's getting gas), I'm right-leaning on pretty much everything except some social issues. Actually, I more than lean right, most people have to hiking to find me out there... BUT, and I hope this tells you something about me, my hubby is as far LEFT as I am right, and we're VERY happily married and yes, we frequently discuss politics. Patdbunny reminded me of something I'll do frequently when a) discussing something with my husb, and b) trying to understand a new concept or a point of view different from my own. What i do is I'll bring up and argue a point I'm not in favor of or don't support. I'm notorious for playing "the devils advocate" in trouble-shooting situations and things like that.

The other thing about me is that I'm honest to a fault. So when I say, "I completely agree with everything you said, but what about.....?" I'm not just blowing smoke. I do agree with you. I'm arguing the other side to make sure I (and anyone else) sees all sides. A lot of times, I do it and don't even realize I'm doing it, so if you catch me and don't want to hear it, tell me to stop. You have to try really hard to hurt my feelings, and if you do, I promise I'll tell you if you promise to tell me when I've hurt yours. I want to be able to make amends because that's never my intention.

That said, it's interesting that this forum is evolving into something more than bird talk. I like it, and value everything that my new bunch of Parrot Head friends has to offer. I think we all have a lot we can learn from each other.

I totally welcome, respect, and celebrate diversity and different points of view. I don't like however, being told what I can and can not do just because someone else can't give me the same respect. I don't push my beliefs and I don't expect anyone to think and act as I do. Exampe- being told I can't possibly support the troops without supporting the war. We can go round and round on the intricate little ifs and buts, but it boils down to what is in your heart. In my original post I remained completely unbiased, hoping others could follow. I realize this stuff gets sensitive and sticky fast- so it is a good thing I have on my big girl panties. I have a few spare if someone needs to borrow a pair.

Vicki5280 wrote:

I'm right-leaning on pretty much everything except some social issues. Actually, I more than lean right, most people have to hiking to find me out there...

Blech, righties.

I'm as far left as they come. I'm as left as Rachel Maddow, Bill Post, and Lawrence O'Donnell. I've happily referred to myself as a socialist many times.


I'm glad we can all get along even if we disagree. It really says something about this forum.

Aw you guys are the best I'm still in that weird adolescent figuring-out-my-political-stands, since I think that moral decisions and politics don't go hand-in-hand. I was definitely raised hard right though. I mean, how many hippies do you see running around with guns

Glad this thread got focused, it was worrying me. I love that most of us are so open. When we discuss stuff without being emotional and throwing around dramaticisms we have such nice conversation!!

It's great that we can all discuss like adults and respect each other's opinions like this. But being a perpetually annoyed cynic that I am, I feel that the shown composure and lack of animosity comes from the fact that we're typing, not face to face conversing. I don't think we should discuss politics so much on here, it's a touchy subject. As far as my thoughts on the military goes, I'm with Alyssa.

^I feel the need to point out this thread was derailed from the original post. I didn't aim to discuss anything.

O.

GlassOnion wrote:

It's great that we can all discuss like adults and respect each other's opinions like this. But being a perpetually annoyed cynic that I am, I feel that the shown composure and lack of animosity comes from the fact that we're typing, not face to face conversing.

AGREED. Sometimes saying what seems to be something that's very harsh can have a very different meaning in person when you can say it in a kind tone with loving eyes. We don't have that here, so we need to guard what we say.

GlassOnion wrote:

I don't think we should discuss politics so much on here, it's a touchy subject.

Also agreed. Like Julsiebean said, though, it wasn't originally intended to be such a discussion. Everybody has to be on board and not start taking words out of people's mouths and getting up in arms. Contradicting opinions is fine, but only if you can offer it and keep the angries on your side of the screen.

Still... you have to admit that PLP has done a freakin' amazing job at that so far... we're kind of a big deal...

LOVE PLP!

Julsiebean wrote:

I totally welcome, respect, and celebrate diversity and different points of view. I don't like however, being told what I can and can not do just because someone else can't give me the same respect. I don't push my beliefs and I don't expect anyone to think and act as I do. Exampe- being told I can't possibly support the troops without supporting the war. We can go round and round on the intricate little ifs and buts, but it boils down to what is in your heart. In my original post I remained completely unbiased, hoping others could follow. I realize this stuff gets sensitive and sticky fast- so it is a good thing I have on my big girl panties. I have a few spare if someone needs to borrow a pair.

I didn't mean to act like a Michael.



Politics is something I can get passionate about. In almost every class in High School we debated on the subject, world issues, religion, english, History...

Sorry to offend! I respect everyone who HAS an opinion. Too much apathy in the world.

Quote :

It's great that we can all discuss like adults and respect each other's opinions like this. But being a perpetually annoyed cynic that I am, I feel that the shown composure and lack of animosity comes from the fact that we're typing, not face to face conversing. I don't think we should discuss politics so much on here, it's a touchy subject. As far as my thoughts on the military goes, I'm with Alyssa.

Maybe it's a Canadian thing?

zazanomore wrote:

Maybe it's a Canadian thing?

So I know we're not supposed to be talking politics anymore, but this is a legitimate question... I know its dumb, but, does Canada have anything to do with US armed forces? I was just confused as to how passionate you seemed about the whole troops thing once I remembered that you're Canadian, haha. Not looking for any personal opinions at to current events, we don't need to open that up again, I'm just curious as to if/how our military is politically tied together somehow.

I wish I knew more about Canadian government - the USA forgets you guys are up there. I went to Niagra falls once and kept some Canadian money. I also learned a song listing the provinces and territories of Canada in alphabetical order, which I still remember. I'm afraid that's the extent of my Canadaness

^The only answer I have to that would be everything America does has influence and affects (effects?) the world, esp other UN nations and such. What we choose to do here has implications and ramifications in the entire free world. We are all so woven together.

America is one of our greatest allies (as we are to the US)

Right now, we are in Afghanistan right now. But we declined to aid in Iraq.

Until the war in Afghanistan, we were known as "Peacekeepers" but since then, we've lost the title. Which saddens me.

I'd managed to miss this whole discussion up until now. And I think everyone should pause and acknowledge that the orginal post was nothing controversial and was entirely well-intended. All Hail (or Hug) Juliesbean!

We made a big mistake during Vietnam in blaming the troops because we didn't like the "war". (I put "war" in quotes because we haven't had a real honest declared war in a very long time). Being down on the people in the armed services is a bit like shooting the messenger. I describe my politics on Facebook as somewhere left of Ghandi, which is only a slight exaggeration. I hate the whole idea of fighting and violence, and I definitely would like to see an expedient way out of the mess we've gotten ourselves mired in. At the same time, I definitely believe strongly that the servicemen and women in our armed forces should be appreciated and compensated for what they do. Without a military, we'd be SOL. It's not a luxury, it's a necessity. We can be unhappy about WHERE the military is being sent, but if we didn't have one at all, we'd be in a weak position in the world. For some people it's the best chance they have of doing something worthwhile in the this world. For some people it can give them an opportunity to turn their lives around. For others it is a point of pride, a family tradition, or something else. I see nothing in that which makes them unworthy of receiving kudos. It's a hard job, even if you are being paid fairly for it. And often these are kids really, barely adults at all, who have signed up and gotten sent wherever.

To be honest, I think what set some people off is that the phrase "Support the Troops" has in large measure been commandeered by certain aspects of the media and certain political figures to imply something more than being kind to other human beings, but rather a specific political agenda. One gets the vague sense one is defining ones politics by using the phrase. In a literal sense I support the troops, but you'll probably never see me use that phrase for fear of being assumed to hold political beliefs I do not. That's one reason I didn't open this thread until now, but then I figured I'd better see what was going on.

I'm sorry if I offended anybody, that wasn't what I wanted. I didn't try to stop anybody from support our troops. I also didn't know, that if I put another point of view, so many of you will feel that way.
Jusiebean, I keep finger crossed for your family.
That's my last respond in that particular topic. Forgive me for having still different opinion, than most of you. I won't respond no more in that topic, because I simply want to avoid "wars" here in that forum- that's the last thing I would want. AMEN.

What is it "never discuss politics, religion or sex"? Those are the things that get almost all people wound up.

Have we decided to live by that in our little neighborhood? If so I guess I piled on out of turn... but I'm also not sure it is going to be possible to avoid entirely coming up to an election year.

For the record, I have no problem with people discussing politics or religion in the forum. I draw the line at sex conversations or using this as a singles forum, mostly because I don't believe one's sex life should be bandied about the internet. Besides, this is a family oriented forum that is open to minors and I'd like to keep it that way.

That said, discuss what you'd like as long as you do so in a respectful, forum appropriate manner. All off topic discussions should be kept in the appropriate sections (and there's quite a few of them) or in the chat box. I'm trusting that, since most of us are adults here, we can have as such.

Margaret wrote:

I'm sorry if I offended anybody, that wasn't what I wanted. I didn't try to stop anybody from support our troops. I also didn't know, that if I put another point of view, so many of you will feel that way.
Jusiebean, I keep finger crossed for your family.
That's my last respond in that particular topic. Forgive me for having still different opinion, than most of you. I won't respond no more in that topic, because I simply want to avoid "wars" here in that forum- that's the last thing I would want. AMEN.

KayLayUh wrote:

(...) That said, discuss what you'd like as long as you do so in a respectful, forum appropriate manner. (...)

There's no emote for it, but I nod in approval. That emote will have to do. Wars between members of ParrotParadise would be extremely unfortunate, because we're friends here. No one wants to war with friends. So long as we retain respect for one another and don't progress from arguments and debates to full-on fighting, which it seems we have so far, we can remain either neutral or friendly to one another and each others' views. Overall the forum will remain positive. No matter the subjects discussed.

I know that more people than Kaela and Margaret stated this sort of thing, and I mean no offense by not quoting others. It seems that all of us here, as has been said multiple times on multiple threads and including those members who haven't gotten caught up in this particular thread, are mature enough to act respectful to one another, and my post would end up far too long if I tried to quote every decent statement showing acceptance of one another.
Long post short - It amazes me that this thread hasn't gotten ugly. Nothing on this forum has gotten ugly. I love you guys, and how non-vicious you all are! So long as we all stay nice like this we'll remain in Paradise.