Done with Kaytee

Zupreem now has all my business.I'm sick and tired of Kaytee being unavailable, after 3 emails asking them to contact me and discussing my options , all they do is give me a list of suppliers who don't have what i've been using, i'm over it.Kaytee's prices have been going up and up and now i'm getting Zupreem for a lot less money.Just ordered a 80 lbs for what 50lbs of Kaytee cost. Kaytee has also quit making 3 of the products i use.I'm sure they are replacing them with a new product but don't have the time to discuss with me what that might be.Screw em.I will also discontinue using their handfeeding fomula which is the only formula i have used,God knows how much of that i use per year. Just had to vent.

That's good information to have. Customer service is a huge part of why a company gets my business. I'm willing to pay more for the same product to get good customer service. Ask my husband, he's seen me do it time and again.

Good for you!
I've been over Kaytee for awhile. They've gotten very expensive and I'm not impressed with what they put in their foods. Their products have always come across to me as "cheap".
Get on the Dr. Fosters&Smith catalogue. Some of the sales they have on pellets causes it to go under $2/pound which includes shipping.

So i emailed them again to tell them i'd switched to Zupreem and never mind.Ofcourse i copied my post here andsent that too.I did mention i was a member of 4 parrot forums and over defending their products. Man you won't believe the phone calls,Margaret ,some big wheel from up north,Jarid the distributor for SE US. The home factory says they are making the same products ,distribution says no one ordered it, But several of the sources Kaytee supplied me don't have it. Kaytee's people are very sorry but i'm over it.I realize I'm a grain of sand on the beach of life, but i hope it hurts them somehow not to have my business.

I've not doen Kaytee for a long time. My fiddos get Zupreem.

I refuse to support both Kaytee and Zupreem. They sell pellets that are so brightly colored that it turns bird poop into those corresponding colors... not to mention the synthetic vitamin K supplement (medadione) that is BANNED for human consumption due to its toxic properties.

Would you feed your human children something that turns their poop green and may cause all sorts of liver/immunity issues, as the main staple of their diet?

I wouldn't buy even their 'natural' pellets because I'd still be supporting their BS.

Besides, Roudybush is not much different in price, while being so much better for our birds's health.

I generally end up either with Zupreem or Pretty Bird Pellets.
When you're buying apprx. 100 pounds at a time, there's a HUGE price difference from the Roudybush. Corporate America is Corporate America. Each company has some BS that's hard to swallow. I was a little concerned that the Roudybush smells like bubblegum. My birds loved Roudybush, but what the heck makes it smell like bubblegum?

Doesn't fruit loops turn your poop green? I like fruit loops

But, roudybush all the way.

Bubblegum? Mine doesn't smell like bubblegum...you Americans and your pellet flavored gum...

Menadione in large quantities has caused problems in neonates and the FDA has banned its use in human supplements for that reason, but as with most things that can be toxic, it's a dosage thing. I haven't seen any confirmation that that's what Zupreem uses, their literature just lists Vitamin K supplement. The indications that they do seem to be word of mouth going around the forums without any confirmation from the company.

As for the issue of colorants... blackberries and cherries will turn bird poop interesting colors -- stuff goes through their systems so fast pigments don't seem to break down even when they are 100% natural. I am not aware of any compelling scientific evidence that colorants are harmful, so I consider being averse to feeding them a matter of personal preference rather than black and white.

I'm not aware of any reasons to be down on Zupreem other than aversion to artificial ingredients. Kaytee has more strikes against them and IMO largely fills a different segment of the market -- the segment that wants to minimize expense. It seems to me that Kaytee is to Zupreem as Friskies is to Science Diet and Zupreem is to Harrisons as Science Diet is to Before Meat in the cat market.

My personal take is that natural is not always better, and my impression is that in many cases "all natural" products have considerably less actual science behind them.

Zupreem's "Vitamin K supplement" is Menadione sodium bisulfite complex.
http://www.zupreem.com/sites/zupreem.com/files/naturaldatasheet.pdf

I can't find any ingredients list at the Roudybush website. But it appears that if Menadione sodium bisulfite complex is of concern, one should not be purchasing Roudybush either. Apparently Roudybush also contains Menadione sodium bisulfite complex: http://hungrybirdfood.com/complete-list-of-pellet-ingredients/roudybush-pellet-ingredient-list/

From my little bit of research on menadione, I have to agree w/ SnS that it's a quantity thing. Another reason I refuse to feed pellets 90%+ as my birds' diets. "Natural" may not necessarily be better than synthetic, but I feel better about feeding a large amount of variety and not being lulled into a sense of false security/"everything's just fine if I feed a lot of pellets".

How do you know that the menadione buildup from pellets is completely safe? I'm sure dosage is important, but is there any word from any company or a study on whether their menadione levels are safe?

Compelling evidence for the dangers of food color? Studies have been conducted and questionable results were achieved. That's more compelling that nothing. It's definitely a good possibility that food dyes do more harm than absolutely nothing. There's no point in arguing FOR a possible health hazard, that has no benefits to begin with. Are colors really necessary in pellets?

But my question is.. WHY feed the things that *may* be a health hazard when you can choose healthier alternatives?! Of course natural isn't always better, but out of the choices we have in synthetic, what's the benefit of going to the furthest of the synthetic you can go?

ps- Roz, good thing to know about Roudybush! Though I don't feed mine that.

Interesting, I looked at the fruit pellet data sheet and also searched the site for the keyword!

I've never been all that convinced by the studies cited on food colorant issues, there is very mixed data out there as far as I have seen. As for the value, if your birds happily eat sufficient non colored pellets, there is little value. However, natural parrot foods are in most cases colorful and they are typically attracted to colorful objects... If color encourages my birds to eat the pellets, I think the downside is minimal.

Well.. Lucky Charms is more appealing than Cheerios

GlassOnion wrote:

Well.. Lucky Charms is more appealing than Cheerios

now thats funny....lol

dusty

GO-What pellets are your guys eating?

They barely eat pellets. Harrison's and TOPS make about 10% of their overall diet. Their staple is various sprouted seeds and oat/wheat grass.

GlassOnion wrote:

They barely eat pellets. Harrison's and TOPS make about 10% of their overall diet. Their staple is various sprouted seeds and oat/wheat grass.

Hope you don't hate me for feeding roudybush...My guys actually LIKE pellets as much as seeds.

I feel crumbles, and I also offer a premium mix which they love. I'm considering adding those nutriberries as a regular thing in their diet, as they like them so much. But I also always give them fresh foods and safe human food (like cooked rice and pasta).

zazanomore wrote:

GlassOnion wrote:

They barely eat pellets. Harrison's and TOPS make about 10% of their overall diet. Their staple is various sprouted seeds and oat/wheat grass.

Hope you don't hate me for feeding roudybush...My guys actually LIKE pellets as much as seeds.

I feel crumbles, and I also offer a premium mix which they love. I'm considering adding those nutriberries as a regular thing in their diet, as they like them so much. But I also always give them fresh foods and safe human food (like cooked rice and pasta).

Why would you be hated for feeding roudybush?
My birds love roudybush. (And who said it smells like bubblegum? I never notied that!) They'll eat just about anything - they love Zupreem too! LOL! I've had them on the organic pellets, but there was such an extraordinary amount of waste I couldn't make myself keep buying it. They also eat sprouted seeds, cooked food, fresh fruits and veggies, and just about whatever I put in front of them.

(When I say they, I'm referring to my pet birds. The budgies are seed birds only. I'm trying to get them to convert to sprouts, but it's an effort. I offer them all cooked food 2-3 times/week, but so far they all just stare at me and act like I'm trying to poison them.)

What is wrong with Zupreem natural? That is what my two eat, and adore.

LOL haters r gunna hate. JKJK!

I used to feed Roudybush, and my birds liked them! I'm considering adding a small portion back into my guys' diet since they really don't like Harrison's. I'm just very wary of feeding a large amount of manufactured pellets in general because Budgies/tiels can get liver issues due to its high protein content.

Once I get a dehydrator (one day) i'm gonna make my own pellets. I follow an avian food blog that some guy writes, and he makes his own "pellets"

Vicki, keep trying the sprouted seeds. They don't even need to be fully sprouted, feed when the tails are beginning to just pop. Have you tried growing oat/wheat grass? Spice loves grass!

My nose must be wigged out. Roudybush pellets smell very strongly of bubblegum to me.

I'm going to the store and open a bag and see.

i wasn't aware of high protein issues with tiels.The biggest issues with me is crude fat % and sugar. No one really knows how much sugar is in some of these pellets. Sure the birds like it better so that means it's sure to be bad. Crude Fat is between 4-10% in the diferent pellets that i feed different birds. Your flighted pets can handle the higher fat and sugar, or if their breeding.But birds process them quickly and don't have a good system to store it, hence the problem with too much.My Chem professor and I didn't see eye to eye ( i didn't enjoy sitting in class having him, read me ,the text book ), so i can't speak intelligently about the vitamin/mineral content ,and things like what trace elements are necessary. I would dearly love to make my own pellets though.Just need Deb to help me out. The secert to a good diet is this, Too much of anything is bad, variety, variety,variety. The birds are pretty smart and will pick out the foods that they need.

GlassOnion wrote:

LOL haters r gunna hate. JKJK!



Once I get a dehydrator (one day) i'm gonna make my own pellets. I follow an avian food blog that some guy writes, and he makes his own "pellets"

glass onion can you post the address for this guy, i think i might like to try this

dusty