Interesting article regarding behavior

http://www.kliniekvoorvogels.nl/publications.asp?RelatieID=88&PublicatieID=124&lang=0&title=Becoming%20a%20Rolemodel%20in%20the%20examination%20room%20as%20avian%20veterinarian

I was especially intrigued by this vet's support of wing clipping as he's in the Netherlands. From my understanding Europeans generally keep their birds flighted.

It had been previously commented to me that my parrots are very calm. I had never thought about it before, but perhaps since mine are clipped and socialized my birds have been able to override their natural prey instincts of fearfulness; kind of like bomb-proofing a horse. A bird's natural prey response of fearfulness is not a useful behavior in our homes as pets.

Very interesting. I don't particularly agree with the section on wing clipping though.

GlassOnion wrote:

Very interesting. I don't particularly agree with the section on wing clipping though.

Didn't think you would. ;)
Would you consider your birds skitterish?

Article was interesting, specially, the part that parrot needs attention. I believe, that in most vet clinics I've been with my pets here, they were more interesting about the owners pocket, like how many exams can I offer her I don't know if it's just my personal experience or no...

As for this part, Roz:

patdbunny wrote:

(...)It had been previously commented to me that my parrots are very calm. I had never thought about it before, but perhaps since mine are clipped and socialized my birds have been able to override their natural prey instincts of fearfulness; kind of like bomb-proofing a horse. A bird's natural prey response of fearfulness is not a useful behavior in our homes as pets.

Have you ever wondered that your birds are socialized and well behaved, because you put normal rules(kind of discipline) to them? I'm not saying, that clipping wings didn't help, I don't know. It might work as well as fixing dogs, cats, bunnies or or other mammals.
But from what I read about your birds, you don't spoil them in the way that they know the rules. They know, what's allowed and what's not, and they know, that they will go to cage if they behave no good. I really try to do the same with mine. Otherwise they will be spoiled and do whatever they want to do with me, and later surprise: what can I do...

As a wings clipping, I don't know. I'm not against that, but when vet is saying that, I'm a bit skeptical, because it's their money... If you clip bird once, you'll more likely come back, they have a client/customer. So for their own benefit is saying all over that wings clipping is a good thing to do.

Seriously, I don't know, I'm not against wings clipping and maybe I will make that decision too in the future reading the examples from here and there. But I would rather believe some experience birds care-takers than a vet about that

patdbunny wrote:

GlassOnion wrote:

Very interesting. I don't particularly agree with the section on wing clipping though.

Didn't think you would.
Would you consider your birds skitterish?

That question wasn't for me, but I figured I'd throw my two cents in.



Pigpen came to me clipped. She was very skittish and cowered in the corner shaking when I approached her. No Name was the same. Once their flight feathers grew in and they learned to fly, they calmed down immensely and were more willing to step up or let me grab them if I needed to.



Piper is clipped and screams if you approach him. He screams if a hand approaches him, if Pigpen gets too close when he doesn't want her to, if Cheney Bird is too close, if a toy is too close. Anything too close to him, he screams and tries to attack. I'm hoping he stops acting like such a loon when he flights grow in and he can fly to get away from the offending object.



I should also say that Piper only steps up if he needs help getting from the floor to the cage. He'll walk over to me and step up if I offer my hand, but not before screaming at it.

Roz, I really think that the way you raise your birds, is very good. Not many people do that from the start and I can guess that many bratty problems arise overtime due to the lack of boundaries.

As for my birds.. Apple is sorta skittish. He's been skittish since the day I got him, but he's much better now. Spice, she's much more open minded and outgoing, but she feeds on Apple's nervousness and acts nervous due to that sometimes.

Margaret wrote:

Article was interesting, specially, the part that parrot needs attention. I believe, that in most vet clinics I've been with my pets here, they were more interesting about the owners pocket, like how many exams can I offer her :thinking: I don't know if it's just my personal experience or no...

As for this part, Roz:

patdbunny wrote:

(...)It had been previously commented to me that my parrots are very calm. I had never thought about it before, but perhaps since mine are clipped and socialized my birds have been able to override their natural prey instincts of fearfulness; kind of like bomb-proofing a horse. A bird's natural prey response of fearfulness is not a useful behavior in our homes as pets.

Have you ever wondered that your birds are socialized and well behaved, because you put normal rules(kind of discipline) to them? I'm not saying, that clipping wings didn't help, I don't know. It might work as well as fixing dogs, cats, bunnies or or other mammals.
But from what I read about your birds, you don't spoil them in the way that they know the rules. They know, what's allowed and what's not, and they know, that they will go to cage if they behave no good. I really try to do the same with mine. Otherwise they will be spoiled and do whatever they want to do with me, and later surprise: what can I do...

As a wings clipping, I don't know. I'm not against that, but when vet is saying that, I'm a bit skeptical, because it's their money... If you clip bird once, you'll more likely come back, they have a client/customer. So for their own benefit is saying all over that wings clipping is a good thing to do.

Seriously, I don't know, I'm not against wings clipping and maybe I will make that decision too in the future reading the examples from here and there. But I would rather believe some experience birds care-takers than a vet about that ;)

Dunno. We'll see what I do different with a flighted bird. Minion's most likely going to stay flighted. Right now she's a perfect doll, but all babies are. She'll still be out and about and socialized like Ducky. She'll just have to be in harness for it. Other than allowing her to be flighted I'll still be raising her the same as other pet birds - no attacking people/pets, no excessive screaming, no biting, no going where she's not allowed like floors, etc. I have plans for her prior to her future breeding career.

This will be a very interesting *experiment* with Minion, keep us posted years down the road.

To not start new topic, I have a question:
Do you think, that clipping wings for Lucky with speed process of socializing with me? And if yes, why? I consider that.

Margaret wrote:

To not start new topic, I have a question:
Do you think, that clipping wings for Lucky with speed process of socializing with me? And if yes, why? I consider that.

Dunno. I really dunno. I see a lot of problems people have with clipped birds too. I think too much emphasis is placed on clipped vs. flighted. It's more an overall way of living with the bird.

You and Lucky sound like you're doing fine. It's more about time and positive exposure. Maybe sit next to him while you read a book. It's very non-threatening. Every so often feed him a treat while you're reading the book. If he won't take a treat out of your hand, drop it into his dish and go back to reading your book. If he doesn't bite you, casually place your hand against the cage and leave it there while you're reading. He can explore you on his own terms in a non-threatening manner.

When I kept Clementine flighted she was far more skittish and would take flight over everything. When I kept her clipped she was far more chill and very social.

Roz, that's what I'm doing, but thanks!
Julsie, who was Clementine?

Mmmm from my personal experience... The moment I clipped 4 of Spice's primaries a few months ago, she instantly became very tame. Her flights are now growing out and she can fly around much better, but she has stayed tame and did not revert to status quo. So I do believe that clipping does help with taming initially.

GlassOnion wrote:

Mmmm from my personal experience... The moment I clipped 4 of Spice's primaries a few months ago, she instantly became very tame. Her flights are now growing out and she can fly around much better, but she has stayed tame and did not revert to status quo. So I do believe that clipping does help with taming initially.

I don't tame birds so I don't know. I've never been into taming birds.
I don't see flight as causing biting, attacking, screaming, etc. I'm of the opinion perhaps people have a harder time enforcing rules on a bird that's flighted. I'll snatch Minion out of the air if she's being "bad". She's still not hand shy from being grabbed out of the air. I have her calm down in my hand before letting her go again so overall it's not a bad experience. She seems to be figuring out that I'll catch her one way or the other if she's misbehaving. Goal is to be able to verbally tell her to cut it out without having to physically restrain her.

A little aside--- Roz's family has the best birdie names.

Clementine was my female lutino tiel that died this past Feb

Shouldn't ask, so sorry