Good article on foods

Vikki wrote:

http://www.oldworldaviaries.com/text/miscellaneous/toxicoses.html

That's one of the best I've seen, and I'm a real curmudgeon about accuracy and fact-based presentation.

Does anyone know what the salt/sodium dietary requirement of a bird is by weight and how far out of that is in the toxic range? I avoid salted foods, but Scotty really likes pasta with marinara and most sauces contain at least a little salt, I'd like to know what portion size is safe.

I know its not very high but as mentioned in the article, birds tend to metabolize very quickly so you have to be careful.
"Bad" foods are kind of a tough issue for me. There are bird diet police who insist that birds should have nothing but pellet and veg. I beg to differ.
Yes, chocolate and alcohol are bad, for obvious reasons, but our birds are garbage cans (not that we purposely feed them poorly). Pickle will eat anything you give him. And what you don't give him, he'll steal. He's eaten chocolate cake, Doritos, cheese fries, fried chicken... you name it. And he's 16 yrs old and in perfect health.
I recently interviewed our vet, who is an avian specialist and I'm actually contemplating not running the article because I don't agree with him and don't know that I can be unbiased. He demanded that parrots had no need of human proteins (chicken, eggs, cheeses...) and that they should eat nothing more than pellets, fresh fruit/veg and a sparingly few nuts. He said the typical bird mixes with the nuts and dried fruit were horrendously bad because the dried fruit had too much sugar.
Personally, I see my birds diets like I see my own. Yes, Big Macs aren't the healthiest thing on the planet, but if I want one, I'm going to eat one.. not 12, but 1. Any food is bad if not moderated. Even the good stuff.

You and I are totally on the same page! Anything is toxic in sufficient quantities and birds are tiny, so what's a large quantity for them is a very small portion to human eyes. I once calculated the amount of chocolate it would take to poison a human and it's something like 6 pounds. But yes, theobromine in sufficient quantity is bad for us, too!

I'm not really a chocolate lover, but if I was to have a need to commit suicide, I'm thinking chocolate overdose would be the way to go, LOL

ScooterNScotty wrote:

You and I are totally on the same page! Anything is toxic in sufficient quantities and birds are tiny, so what's a large quantity for them is a very small portion to human eyes. I once calculated the amount of chocolate it would take to poison a human and it's something like 6 pounds. But yes, theobromine in sufficient quantity is bad for us, too!

This made me think of the Hershey's resort with chocolate baths. I could totally eat 6 pounds of chocolate; I love it!

That said, whomever had Cheney Bird before I got him must have fed him crap. I normally don't eat potato chips, but the one time I did, he was all over me and the chips like a hawk. He loved it!

When I was on lithium, I had to restrict my sodium intake. Now I use precious little of it. Even if I do use it, as long as I'm not dumping a whole shaker in, the birds can have some. They eat a few bites of something, most of which goes on the floor, and they're done.

I will join the discussion.
Previous caretakers of Lucky, gave him...bear and wine. We wouldn't know, but last Saturday we both drink and our both reaction for Lucky being ready to give his soul for both alcohol made us... speachless

And about original subject, I'm also not with strictly book diet. Common sense yes, because we want have our birds for a long time, but on the other hand are we human perfect with our diet?

ScooterNScotty wrote:

Does anyone know what the salt/sodium dietary requirement of a bird is by weight and how far out of that is in the toxic range? I avoid salted foods, but Scotty really likes pasta with marinara and most sauces contain at least a little salt, I'd like to know what portion size is safe.

This recently came up on the ASA list. The salt requirement's not quantified, but the following was pointed out:

"Macaws eating from the cliffs of Manu (Peru, SA).
It was believed that the clay found in the cliffs acted to both replenish minerals as well as help purge any toxins from the birds bodies. Further theories as to why Parrots eat soil is not only to obtain minerals but because the birds need sodium (salt). At the Tambopata Research Ctr. in Peru, birds (more than a 1,500 daily have been observed), eat as much sodium per bite, from the analyzed cliff soil, as salted french fries from a fast food restaurant. Mothers also carry the soil back to their nests for their babies. . ." (I think this was in reference to research conducted by Dr. Brightsmith on the salt cliffs.)

Dr. Susan Clubb commented some salt was necessary in birds' diets, no specific quantity discussed.

Someone else mentioned that they had a plucking bird that stopped plucking once they supplemented the diet with a tad bit of salt - 1/3 teaspoon in a "small puppy bucket" of water. (what the heck quantity is a "small puppy bucket"?)

patdbunny wrote:

"Macaws eating from the cliffs of Manu (Peru, SA).
It was believed that the clay found in the cliffs acted to both replenish minerals as well as help purge any toxins from the birds bodies. Further theories as to why Parrots eat soil is not only to obtain minerals but because the birds need sodium (salt). At the Tambopata Research Ctr. in Peru, birds (more than a 1,500 daily have been observed), eat as much sodium per bite, from the analyzed cliff soil, as salted french fries from a fast food restaurant. Mothers also carry the soil back to their nests for their babies. . ." (I think this was in reference to research conducted by Dr. Brightsmith on the salt cliffs.)

I saw this on the Discovery Channel. There were birds as large as macaws eating the clay next to birds as small as conures. Generally, from what the program said, is that the birds eat the clay and soil when the foods they typically eat aren't ripe and they have to eat toxic unripened foods. In one frame, it looked like a macaw was eating an unripened avocado before eating the clay.

I watched this on Discovery as well which also got me to questioning what the vet said. I understand why some (especially professionals who have to deal with pet heath issues all day long) would have such a strong stance on dietary needs. They see it from a purely clinical reference. But when you deal with your animals 24/7 and as they become your children, their diets become more like your own. And as much as we would all like to think we eat well, admit it, we all eat crap once in a while. Your body needs that kind of break.
I had a similar argument with my mother recently. She's tiny, she's always eaten like a bird (so to speak) and I hate going to her house because all she ever has in her fridge is skim milk, diet cheese, no salt meat, diet tea.... there is nothing normal in her fridge. We had the skim milk battle. i told her it was pointless to drink it, its basically white colored water. It has no nutritional value. Where whole milks, though fatty and having some amount of calories, also have vitamins, sugars and fats that our bodies need on occasion. Just like our birds do.
No, birds don't normally eat fried chicken or cheese in nature, but if it was readily available there, would they? I think they would, and they would adapt to it like they do with the soil they eat o help their digestion.
I wonder if they have this soil available for pet consumption?

My first jenday pretty much daily ate the trash I ate and otherwise was on a seed based diet. I eat really salty, greasy foods. She had a passion for french fries which I gave her at least once a week (well salted at that). She lived to be 16 yo and died of an accident unrelated to diet. She "may" have had diet based health issues, but nothing apparent at the time of death.

As mentioned, one of Pickles favorites is salted cheese fries....salted....with cheese. And Pickle is a 16 yr old Hahn's... a tiny bird. he also loves cookies and will verbally start screaming "cookie!" when he sees one.