Parrots and small children

If you need to move the thread please do. I thought this was a fitting place.

So, I'm not so much asking for advice for me .... because we're aren't having a baby or anything. And Aries has been around many little kids ( 3-5year olds) at one time. He seems to trust kids more than adults actually. We have our nieces and nephews come up every so often.

I guess what the topic aim is, is to help people with their parrot interacting with kids. So many times I hear, "oh, well we can't keep (pet's name) because we're having a baby" I think it's complete non-sense...but I understand that some people just don't have the training to make it happen.

I did a quick search for info on parrots and small children and most of it was negative feedback. If we could have some info here...it might help? Kids with dogs or cats seem to understand the rules a little better...but maybe giving some basic rules and interaction ideas might help. We all think of it as DUH stuff...but we know birds a little better. What do you guys think?

Edited for clarification. Please forgive me, I'm trying to recover from a horrid migraine...and type at the same time.

It isn't non sense. If you can't hack having a newborn and commit to the continued care of your parrot, then finding the parrot a new home is responsible.





Having little kids is a different ballgame then having a newborn, or hell, even being exhausted, sick, and pregnant. Not to mention recovering from having said baby and the emotional drama and making it all work and figuring out with your spouse. It CHANGES things, and all the baby sitting and nieces and nephews in the world won't prepare you.



Often, something has to give. Acknowledging the parrot needs a different home while may seem like a cop out, it is better then letting the bird waste away and suffer in a cage confused as to why you "turned" on him.





Like many things in parronting and parenting, being judgemental has a way of biting you in the ass, so I try really hard to be open minded and objective.



Rehoming isn't easy, and neither is the choice.

Please understand the vein in which I am posting this thread.

I did not post to bash on anyone nor did I say that babysitting or having Aries around kids was preparing us to have kids. I said that maybe having a few pointers here would help people ease the transition.

I know having a baby changes things and in no way was I EVER trying to put that down at all. The whole thing that made me want to post this was actually about a person rehoming a dog because they were having a baby. I understand that rehoming is not an easy choice and was hoping to help ease the stress issue that many people go through in many life situations that cause change.

Many times I see bird re-homes when it comes to people that bought the bird for the 6 year old and then the kid lost interest or the bird bit and that was it. Hoping for more of a resource than anything because if you do a google search right now, all the articles that come up are that you should never have kids around birds because it's just not possible to make it work. Which I don't believe as many of the people on this forum have kids and parrots.

Just wanted to clear up what I meant because there is no way that I don't think babies change things or that I have anywhere near the ideal advice giving because I don't have kids. That's why I was posting this...to get the people that do have kids to post.

Maybe I should never mind...maybe I didn't post it right...I'll probably delete. Sorry...never mind.

I certainly don't think you posted anything wrong, my post was meant as a generic, while answering your questions, not "aimed" at you, didn't mean to cause an issue. If I did I deeply apologize.



I feel for people having to rehome because of kids. Often times there is an unsupportive spouse in the deal somewhere too.



I get upset when I see clearly unfit animal parents, but try to cut them a break for at least finding the pet a new home.

And I know there are people that are only thinking of the bird's best interest. I just feel like there is so much education that could be passed along that maybe they just didn't see in the pages and pages of negative feedback. I think if they're trying to rehome for the bird's best then they are at least being responsible in that way.

Just a discussion about how you make it work with kids...I don't have any kids so anything I say is speculative. We don't have a 24 hour interaction to base it off of. I hear "well you don't have kids so you don't know" nearly on a weekly basis from parents...so maybe if there's info coming from people that have kids...it'll help? I'd like this thread to come up on the first page of google searches as some good ways to introduce kids to the bird companion you're bringing home...like I said...maybe I posted it wrong and I need to put it somewhere else...I don't know.

I'm not sure there is any advice. All pregnancies, bringing home babies, and the newborns themselves are different. My two boys, my pregnancies with them, and the circumstances afterwards were totally different. You can't predict how you will feel/how things will hash out with you spouse. All I can say is make responsible choices as an adult before you have kids if you plan on having kids.

When I had EC I had an M2, a G2, a jenday conure, 2 cockatiels, and a CAG as pets. I also had a couple of breeder pairs of tiels and a dog. It never crossed my mind to get rid of any of my pets because I'm having a baby.

I think a big problem is people not giving their pets boundaries prior to having children. Then the pet's "jealous" or just unruly and not safe around the new baby. How often do we read that - Rehoming dog/cat/bird because it doesn't get along with the baby. I took in a U2 for awhile that had not been taught limitation. He jumped off his cage and went to mug EC for food when she was a toddler. I physically blocked him with my body and shooed him back to his cage. He learned pretty quickly that if he's going to be unruly he'll get locked in his cage. If he behaved and stayed on his cage he got some of whatever EC was eating.

For me, I think socialization helps a lot. I've also had a lot of different pets over the years. So my pets just see a new addition as a new pet in the family. Wouldn't be surprised if that's what all the animals saw the new baby as.

My pets aren't allowed to attack each other. So they pretty much understood they're not allowed to attack the new pet baby. And the baby's not allowed to harass the animals. No banging on bird cages, pulling tails, etc.

If the birds (or any other pet for that matter) wants to interact with the child in a nice way, the bird was allowed to. If they didn't want to interact with the child, they weren't forced to. But being raised to be very social and socialized, most of my birds do want to interact nicely.

I guess my pets feel pretty secure that they won't be harassed or forced to interact with another "animal" (human baby included) if they don't want to; but if they can behave and want to interact they'll be allowed; and they will be disciplined for aggression.

So in a nutshell, my advice is socializing the bird and teaching it rules and how to behave around people and children; and making sure children don't tease or harass the birds.

I've never had any problems raising a child with various birds and other animals.

have alot to say on this topic and will get back to it when i have a chance, maybe later this PM

henpecked wrote:

have alot to say on this topic and will get back to it when i have a chance, maybe later this PM

Ok, Capt. Don't forget about this thread.

We have several birds at the rescue that were surrendered due to this issue. Like others, I respect that its the owners choice to do so and for most it is the most responsible thing to do in the end. What I do not agree with, though (being on the receiving end so often) are the surrenders we get before there are any issues. I understand being pregnant is exhausting and oftimes you just don't have the strength to care for a bird (though smaller birds are easier to deal with than larger ones in this case). But all too often we see brids come in before people are even halfway through a pregnancy and personally, I feel like that's a cop out.

I see a pet as just another child in the family. If the parrot were human, would you get rid of it just because it was suddenly too much work? No. You would make adjustments and keep the family unit as it was prior to the new addition.

Granted, down the road, once the baby is born if the bird starts exhibiting signs of jealousy and makes attacks, that's a different story altogether. That's a safety issue and one that should not be taken lightly.

Again, personally, I believe many people jump at surrendering their pets before they give the pet a chance to adapt as they will have to. Adaptation will not happen overnight so you can't expect golden behavior so quickly.

Ok, more questions For the general people going through this.

How do you start the transition process? If you've socialized your bird, it may help, but like you've said, birds can be like kids. Older siblings have jealousy issues, but how do you handle this with a bird. People get dogs and cats used the the smell and noise of babies sometimes by having friends bring them by.

How would you suggest to get the bird started AND socialized with the little soft pink person? Pointers and helping people not just think of the "oh my goodness what if the bird BITES THE BABY!!!" To re-frame their thinking and retrain their minds to how to help the bird in the transition.

Rule of thumb for most birds... they should not be loose around a child that's too small to defend themselves. Period. We tend to cap this at about 5, at that point, children can listen and understand "don't poke at the birdy", smaller children can't be controlled or trusted not to do this.

As for the birds, socialization doesn't have to be in physical touching. As long as your bird is within view and can hear and smell from where they are, that is a huge help. If you have a baby, you don't need to move the cage to the baby's rom, but if you're going to do a feeding, why not feed your bird(s) at the same time and place a chair in the room while you feed your baby, so the bird can equate the two.

Having the bird in the room during interactions with the children is a huge step during socialization. The biggest issues I've seen is that people tend to closet their birds once they have kids and don't pay attention to their birds at all and thats what starts all the problems in their birds behavior, because at that point the bird knows its being replaced and resents it and the child.

Vikki wrote:

Rule of thumb for most birds... they should not be loose around a child that's too small to defend themselves. Period.

I agree. Or the bird's been taught the rule of staying on its perch/cage and not going after the child. I used to put EC on the couch, and let the birds out in the same room on their stands or cage tops. Never had a problem. The kid wasn't old enough to leave the couch, the birds didn't leave their areas to harass the child.

Vikki wrote:

We tend to cap this at about 5, at that point, children can listen and understand "don't poke at the birdy", smaller children can't be controlled or trusted not to do this.

Generally, yes. Unfortunately, a lot of people can't control their children, just as they cannot control their pets. I never had any problems w/ EC.

Vikki wrote:

As for the birds, socialization doesn't have to be in physical touching. As long as your bird is within view and can hear and smell from where they are, that is a huge help. If you have a baby, you don't need to move the cage to the baby's rom, but if you're going to do a feeding, why not feed your bird(s) at the same time and place a chair in the room while you feed your baby, so the bird can equate the two. Having the bird in the room during interactions with the children is a huge step during socialization.

Agreed. EC'd be in her high chair eating and there'd be a bird literally sitting next to her eating. I guess my routine was eating time was eating time for everyone, human or otherwise. Child got situated and fed first, then everyone else. They all knew the routine and all waited patiently for their turn.

Vikki wrote:

The biggest issues I've seen is that people tend to closet their birds once they have kids and don't pay attention to their birds at all and thats what starts all the problems in their birds behavior, because at that point the bird knows its being replaced and resents it and the child.

I never did this. Maybe that's why I had no problems integrating the baby in with all the pets. I still don't have problems integrating. I have some that need to get caged up when another is out, but there's no resentment as everyone gets their turn.

Vikki wrote:

I do not agree with, though (being on the receiving end so often) are the surrenders we get before there are any issues. I understand being pregnant is exhausting and oftimes you just don't have the strength to care for a bird (though smaller birds are easier to deal with than larger ones in this case). But all too often we see brids come in before people are even halfway through a pregnancy and personally, I feel like that's a cop out.

THAT sucks. Had no idea that happened. Sounds like the people lost interest long ago and the pending baby's just an excuse to get rid of the pet.
Exhausted or not, I just made it work. Yeah, sometimes the cages didn't get cleaned out as often as they should have, but it all worked out. You learn tips and tricks to make life easier on yourself, like feeding everything the same food - human or otherwise. EC ate bird food - really. She'd get a bowl before I put birdie additives into it.

MandaDPanda wrote:

How would you suggest to get the bird started AND socialized with the little soft pink person? Pointers and helping people not just think of the "oh my goodness what if the bird BITES THE BABY!!!" To re-frame their thinking and retrain their minds to how to help the bird in the transition.

I never let my birds get close enough to the baby to bite the baby. The naughty G2 did get off her perch once and bit EC on the finger. I severely chased the G2 back to her cage and the G2 never did it again. I know it sounds like human anger when I say I chased the bird. I have a hard time explaining it, but the birds display to each other, I display at them. They seem to understand what I'm doing. I display and chase, but immediately stop once they get where I want them, or they stop the behavior I want them to stop. This is what they do to each other. It's almost bi-polar. There's a huge display, and then it immediately stops when the result they're looking for is achieved; and that's what I do. Does that make any sense? I've had my family comment that I'm a little strange because one second I "seem" angry, and the next second I'm cuddling the creature I was displaying at.

Also - Don't ever leave the child unattended with a loose animal.

Adding - Yes, my mother gave me a ration of grief that the bird bit the baby and I need to get rid of the bird. But I knew I had the situation under control so I did not get rid of the bird. G2 did not go to my friend until years later when our household lifestyle changed and it was better for the bird to go to my friend, but that had nothing to do with having a child.

MandaDPanda wrote:

Ok, more questions For the general people going through this.

How do you start the transition process? If you've socialized your bird, it may help, but like you've said, birds can be like kids. Older siblings have jealousy issues, but how do you handle this with a bird. People get dogs and cats used the the smell and noise of babies sometimes by having friends bring them by.

How would you suggest to get the bird started AND socialized with the little soft pink person? Pointers and helping people not just think of the "oh my goodness what if the bird BITES THE BABY!!!" To re-frame their thinking and retrain their minds to how to help the bird in the transition.

Ms Vikki and PDB make some very good points,and i don't mean to distract from that. But perhaps more basic is how your birds view kids.There is no substitution for a very well socialized parrot, However many birds are "leary" of small people.Small people are not the same as people, birds learn to "read" people and small people bother them.SP (small people) have short attention spans,they flip/flop back and forth,they move too fast,they're not as sure in their intentions,loud with that excited pitch to their voice,you know ,they're kind of scary.Now I'll let ya'll handle the people side of it but thought i might bring the other side of this relationship to light.
As a oldest child of 4 i was raised with an amazon who'd been there before me and my siblings came about.In all of my memories of Jaunita i never remember her having a cage,several perches yes,a cage no.My mother, the saint that she is, raised us without a bite,yes a special amazon too be sure but kids raised with a bird who was treated as an equal part of the family.You picked on your little sister you got a .........,it was no different if you teased jaunita.The bird generally has no issues with being part of the flock, but when treated different or excluded then the kids are viewed as outsiders.The same holds true with my kids being raised around a bunch of amazons,now grown and gone ,they are still some of my birds favorite people.(not to imply that I'm any sort of saint,and they've all been bit)

There's another angle here that hasn't been touched on. I think some young couples knowingly or unknowingly get pets as child substitutes. I've seen some people do this that were never really into pets before, but after getting married came across a cute kitten or puppy and the urge to nurture something sparked. Then when a real baby is on the way, the pet is no longer needed to fill that role and gets sort of stranded. The people I know that had pets their whole lives and really saw the pets as important components of the family in their own right have had no real problem integrating the pets with children. I can imagine the extreme case where the pet becomes a genuine danger to the child, but I would expect that to be very rare indeed.

henpecked wrote:

But perhaps more basic is how your birds view kids.There is no substitution for a very well socialized parrot, However many birds are "leary" of small people.Small people are not the same as people, birds learn to "read" people and small people bother them.SP (small people) have short attention spans,they flip/flop back and forth,they move too fast,they're not as sure in their intentions,loud with that excited pitch to their voice,you know ,they're kind of scary.

True and I agree. Socialization of the bird I think helps A LOT. I raise my babies around my nieces and nephews and let them play with the birds as though the birds were action figures - so long as they don't hurt the birds. They understand and are great with the birds and the birds learn not to get too upset about how the kids are running around. I supervise it all and make sure the bird's not getting upset.

henpecked wrote:

As a oldest child of 4 i was raised with an amazon who'd been there before me and my siblings came about.In all of my memories of Jaunita i never remember her having a cage,several perches yes,a cage no.My mother, the saint that she is, raised us without a bite,yes a special amazon too be sure but kids raised with a bird who was treated as an equal part of the family.You picked on your little sister you got a .........,it was no different if you teased jaunita.The bird generally has no issues with being part of the flock, but when treated different or excluded then the kids are viewed as outsiders.The same holds true with my kids being raised around a bunch of amazons,now grown and gone ,they are still some of my birds favorite people.(not to imply that I'm any sort of saint,and they've all been bit)

Yes. I think this is how EC was raised around the birds.

ScooterNScotty wrote:

There's another angle here that hasn't been touched on. I think some young couples knowingly or unknowingly get pets as child substitutes. I've seen some people do this that were never really into pets before, but after getting married came across a cute kitten or puppy and the urge to nurture something sparked. Then when a real baby is on the way, the pet is no longer needed to fill that role and gets sort of stranded.

Unfortunately, I see your point.

ScooterNScotty wrote:

The people I know that had pets their whole lives and really saw the pets as important components of the family in their own right have had no real problem integrating the pets with children. I can imagine the extreme case where the pet becomes a genuine danger to the child, but I would expect that to be very rare indeed.

Yes. The "danger" part's more common with dogs, I think. I had to euthanize an aggressive dog when I thought it was no longer safe to have in the household around EC and her friends that would come over. For a dog, I think that's the only responsible decision. Can't rehome it to be a danger to other people. I didn't even consider getting rid of the G2 when it bit EC. I would have been different if the bird was constantly trying to jump at her face and maim her, but that wasn't the case.

ScooterNScotty wrote:

There's another angle here that hasn't been touched on. I think some young couples knowingly or unknowingly get pets as child substitutes. I've seen some people do this that were never really into pets before, but after getting married came across a cute kitten or puppy and the urge to nurture something sparked. Then when a real baby is on the way, the pet is no longer needed to fill that role and gets sort of stranded. The people I know that had pets their whole lives and really saw the pets as important components of the family in their own right have had no real problem integrating the pets with children. I can imagine the extreme case where the pet becomes a genuine danger to the child, but I would expect that to be very rare indeed.

And this is why, I think, we get so many snap surrenders from pregnant or new mothers. Like you said, the ones that have either had pets all their lives or for a very long time to that point don't see them as pets and don't have issues with integration, in fact it never becomes a thought.



And I also agree with HP. Birds are very twitchy around kids because they themselves are twitchy. When we do pet shows we basically have a “public flock” that consist of our standard tag alongs. All but 2 are rescues that are adoptable. One we always bring is Ziggy, Jeanne’s Senegal. He’s our rescue ambassador and he goes to anyone and takes all levels of abuse like a champ and we take him because we know that. He won’t bite if a kid pokes at his head and he knows every command, so he’s very attentive when we’re trying to teach a small child about “step ups” and what not. Otherwise, there aren’t many birds I would trust with strange children that the bird is not familiar or comfortable with; I think that is the key in the end. Familiarity and comfort.