I'm making the leap

I did it. I bought six adult budgies today from two different sources. My hubs is going to let me keep them at home, so this will be MY breeding program to do MY way (with everyone's help, of course!). My plan at this point is to "co-parent" the babies rather than hand-feed (though I'm perfectly prepared to hand-feed if necessary). I talked to my vet today and interestingly, that's what he advocated as well, so I think I'm on the right track. I've got four cocks and one hen for sure, I THINK I've got two... the second one I'm not certain about, but the way it's acting with the little male it came with, if it's not a girl, it's a really feminine boy! Both of the (assumed) hens are already bonded, so I'm not really sure how to start the breeding thing. The blue hen is bonded with a green cock and that's just not going to work for me. I don't want to start a flock of green birds. Can anyone tell me the best way to break up that love affair? I've already separated them, but they're still singing back and forth to each other.... it's almost painful to hear!

As I said, I plan to do the co-parenting thing. I also have great plans to have them all used to a wee-little budgie harness before they go home. I'm already making up designs for "training harnesses" made out of children's shoe-laces. I figure the earlier they're introduced to having stuff pulled around their belly and under their wings, the better off they'll be when it's time to put on a real harness, huh?

Well, thats about it for now. I'll post updates as they happen and will post pictures really soon!

You need to separate them to the point they can't hear each other. That might mean you need to ditch the green male altogether if you can't make is so they can't hear each other in your house.

Speaking of tiny harnesses. . .

http://www.parrotparadiseforum.com/t357-aviator-harness?highlight=harness

Scroll down the post - there's a little bourke w/ a harness on.

Roz (And anyone else who cares to comment), more breeding questions:

1) At what age do budgies reach sexual maturity and at what age would I expect them to start breeding activities?
2) Where can I find breeding boxes?
3) What are the "essential" things you recommend I have on hand before anyone starts hatching? before anyone starts gettin' it on?
4) What else do you think I need to know?

I'm reading all I can and asking everyone everything I can think to ask. I'm going to be as prepared as possible but because (shock!) I'm human, I'm bound to miss something - so I keep talking and keep asking.

I'm a member of the AFA and I just got an email about their online courses in Aviculture... it's not free, but it might be just what you are looking for. I'd be happy to forward you the email.

VickiNumbers wrote:

Roz (And anyone else who cares to comment), more breeding questions:

1) At what age do budgies reach sexual maturity and at what age would I expect them to start breeding activities?

Don't remember exactly on the budgies, but I believe as early as about 8 months of age. I think they're similar to the bourkes. I don't pair them until at least a year of age. Even if they're sexually mature, a lot of times under 1 year old they're not mentally mature enough to lay, sit, and successfully raise babies. So, I pair at 1 year of age and figure they'll take a few months to get cozy which would put them closer to 18 months old before they try to have babies.

VickiNumbers wrote:

2) Where can I find breeding boxes?

Doesn't your shop carry them? I think petco and petsmart has them or you can order them online. Budgies don't need (I don't think they care for it either) nesting material such as shavings. Budgie boxes have a concavity on the bottom and they lay in that indentation.

VickiNumbers wrote:

3) What are the "essential" things you recommend I have on hand before anyone starts hatching? before anyone starts gettin' it on?

Heat pad that does NOT have an auto off. Your most likely problem would be egg binding. But in 20 years I've only encountered egg binding a handful of times. I personally think if they birds are super healthy, well fed, and not over bred you won't have many health issues. I had one hen that seemed to egg bind pretty regularly (twice in a row - a bourke) so I just retired her. Other than a heat pad, other supplies depend on whether or not you're going to let nature take its course or if you'll take extraordinary measures to save babies. Let me know what your plans are and I'll let you know what else I have on hand for egg/baby interventions.

VickiNumbers wrote:

4) What else do you think I need to know?

I'm not a budgie expert. I've dabbled in them in the past. Just read a lot. Have the pairs in a relatively quiet area of the house without a lot of traffic. I knock on the box at feeding time to cue them that it's feeding time and to come out of the box. They seem more open to leaving the box at feeding time and then I take a peek while they're eating. Start the box knocking at feeding time even if they're not nesting yet to start training them to associate the knocking with the feeding.

New pairs that you don't know their parenting skills, don't force them off the nest. Try to train them to get off to let you look, but if they won't then you'll just have to peek whenever it is you catch them out of the box. Once a day is sufficient. Some pairs you won't be able to even look once a day. I have a pair of conures that I can only get a peek once a week, twice a week if I'm lucky.

Since you're going to try to co-parent, have a piece of cardboard to slip in front of the nestbox hole when the parents leave the box. Start with just very short baby handling sessions of a minute or two.

Some old articles, but it's a start: http://birdsnways.com/birds/artspec.htm#Budgies
http://birdsnways.com/birds/artbreed.htm

ScooterNScotty wrote:

I'm a member of the AFA and I just got an email about their online courses in Aviculture... it's not free, but it might be just what you are looking for. I'd be happy to forward you the email.

Here's the AFA course info:
http://afabirds.org/foa_intro.shtml

I've taken both courses. They're very good and very informational, but too topical for Vicki's purposes.

What you'll need depends on if you need to rescue eggs/chicks (brooder,incubator,formula,syringes, digital scales,etc ) I've never messed with budgies but hubby should be able to build nest boxes and breeder cages. You'll need a flight to put them in when grown.

I know absolutely nothing on breeding.

But, I love budgies

ScooterNScotty wrote:

I'm a member of the AFA and I just got an email about their online courses in Aviculture... it's not free, but it might be just what you are looking for. I'd be happy to forward you the email.

AH! Yes! I'd love that information!

patdbunny wrote:

VickiNumbers wrote:

2) Where can I find breeding boxes?

Doesn't your shop carry them? I think petco and petsmart has them or you can order them online. Budgies don't need (I don't think they care for it either) nesting material such as shavings. Budgie boxes have a concavity on the bottom and they lay in that indentation.

Yes, the store carries them, but she's out right now. She's said she needs to order them, but I have no idea when they'll arrive. It might be faster (cheaper?) to get them somewhere else.

patdbunny wrote:

VickiNumbers wrote:

3) What are the "essential" things you recommend I have on hand before anyone starts hatching? before anyone starts gettin' it on?

Heat pad that does NOT have an auto off. Your most likely problem would be egg binding. But in 20 years I've only encountered egg binding a handful of times. I personally think if they birds are super healthy, well fed, and not over bred you won't have many health issues. I had one hen that seemed to egg bind pretty regularly (twice in a row - a bourke) so I just retired her. Other than a heat pad, other supplies depend on whether or not you're going to let nature take its course or if you'll take extraordinary measures to save babies. Let me know what your plans are and I'll let you know what else I have on hand for egg/baby interventions.

Re: Heating pad - those are hard to find, have you noticed? That's all I ever buy (the kind w/o the auto-off), and the last time I bought some, I had to order them off Amazon. I do have three of them now, so I'm off to a good start for those. Regarding "extraordinary measures." I expect I'll be letting nature take it's course for the most part. If I have need of a brooder or incubator, my plan at this point is to foster the eggs or chicks. I've got three hens (so far) that are all forming relationships with new men, so my hope is that by the time I'm ready to hang the nest boxes, they'll be getting ready to use them.

patdbunny wrote:

VickiNumbers wrote:

4) What else do you think I need to know?

I'm not a budgie expert. I've dabbled in them in the past. Just read a lot. Have the pairs in a relatively quiet area of the house without a lot of traffic. I knock on the box at feeding time to cue them that it's feeding time and to come out of the box. They seem more open to leaving the box at feeding time and then I take a peek while they're eating. Start the box knocking at feeding time even if they're not nesting yet to start training them to associate the knocking with the feeding.

New pairs that you don't know their parenting skills, don't force them off the nest. Try to train them to get off to let you look, but if they won't then you'll just have to peek whenever it is you catch them out of the box. Once a day is sufficient. Some pairs you won't be able to even look once a day. I have a pair of conures that I can only get a peek once a week, twice a week if I'm lucky.

Since you're going to try to co-parent, have a piece of cardboard to slip in front of the nestbox hole when the parents leave the box. Start with just very short baby handling sessions of a minute or two.

Some old articles, but it's a start: http://birdsnways.com/birds/artspec.htm#Budgies
http://birdsnways.com/birds/artbreed.htm

patdbunny wrote:

Here's the AFA course info: http://afabirds.org/foa_intro.shtml

I've taken both courses. They're very good and very informational, but too topical for Vicki's purposes.

I work in a bird store! What are you talking about, "too topical?" LOL!

henpecked wrote:

What you'll need depends on if you need to rescue eggs/chicks (brooder,incubator,formula,syringes, digital scales,etc ) I've never messed with budgies but hubby should be able to build nest boxes and breeder cages. You'll need a flight to put them in when grown.

Yep, like I said to SnS - brooder and incubator would (hopefully) be the foster mom. If not, it would be a sad day for an egg. If the baby is all the way out and I don't have anyone to foster it to, I'm certain I could care for the baby long enough to get it to Jenn and Karen to take over. I plan to have a set-up similar to what the store uses on hand to try and care for any chicks that might need it. I'll have some, syringes and handfeeding formula on hand as well as some of the basic (and maybe even not so basic) medical supplies to care for them if they need that as well.

I don't know what's considered extraordinary measures in bird-land, but when I think extraordinary, I think of babies in the NICU. I'm not going that far with them! I'll not be sticking tubes down their throats to keep them breathing, nor will I be starting IV's (even if it were a realistic possibility). I'll certainly do what's reasonable and practical for me at the time without killing myself in the process

zazanomore wrote:

I know absolutely nothing on breeding.

But, I love budgies

Zaza, I'm starting to get the impression that you like budgies! Guess what!?! I'm going to have some for you!

OK Experienced people - BIG QUESTION - does this seem worth it? And what kinds of questions would I ask???

http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/1912954.html

Get the book
Parrots: Handfeeding & Nursery Management
by Howard Voren and Rick Jordan

Absolutely invaluable.

My copy's all hi-lighted up and tabbed.

Fostering takes a bit of juggling. The eggs/babies have to be apprx. age to the foster pairs' or for the eggs you can move them from foster nest to foster nest if the timing's not right. I can explain that in more detail if you need. I tend to do fostering over incubating if absolutely necessary.

VickiNumbers wrote:

OK Experienced people - BIG QUESTION - does this seem worth it? And what kinds of questions would I ask???

http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/1912954.html

Dunno. Depends on what things cost in CO. In SoCal I can get budgies for $5. What kind of cages? Really sturdy wire cages (wire like rabbit cage wire), I suppose it might be worth it.

Getting into breeding and acquiring "proven" pairs is very much caveat emptor. People ditch birds a lot of times because the birds suck or they're having problems. That might not apply right now due to the economy. People might just be unloading because they need the money. When I buy birds, I don't ask too many questions as I just assume I won't be getting the straight story anyway. Assess as best you can. Hold the birds (even if they're biting the crap out of you) and try to assess body weight, no poopy bottoms, they seem to be fighting you as healthy birds should, clear eyes, clear noses, etc. and watch them after you let them go to see if they recover pretty quickly or are panting and distressed like they're sick. That's about all I can think of right now.

Oh, yeah - baby pedialyte. I get the powder stuff and store in the freezer. A weak baby a lot of times perks right up with a few supplemental feedings of pedialyte.

patdbunny wrote:

Get the book
Parrots: Handfeeding & Nursery Management
by Howard Voren and Rick Jordan

Absolutely invaluable.

My copy's all hi-lighted up and tabbed.

Fostering takes a bit of juggling. The eggs/babies have to be apprx. age to the foster pairs' or for the eggs you can move them from foster nest to foster nest if the timing's not right. I can explain that in more detail if you need. I tend to do fostering over incubating if absolutely necessary.

All I know for certain right now is that I wont be incubating any eggs. It's more involved than I'm able to be at this point. As for the juggling required for fostering, I think I've got a pretty good handle on what's required for that. I may not have enough hens to always be able to find an appropriate foster, and if that's the case, so be it. Like I said, if the eggs hatched I can take care of the babes. If not, perhaps it wasn't meant to be.

Edit: Oh yeah, I bought the book! (on your recommendation, of course!)

Roz posted the link to the course info, it's the same as in the email. I'm thinking about doing it on general principles.

ScooterNScotty wrote:

Roz posted the link to the course info, it's the same as in the email. I'm thinking about doing it on general principles.

I think I am as well. I think it will serve me well working at the store like I do.

zazanomore wrote:

I know absolutely nothing on breeding.

6 kids and 12 grandkids later i finally have a grasp on breeding, better late than never....lol

i like budgies too


dusty

VickiNumbers wrote:

ScooterNScotty wrote:

Roz posted the link to the course info, it's the same as in the email. I'm thinking about doing it on general principles.

I think I am as well. I think it will serve me well working at the store like I do.

"General Principles", yeah, that's pretty much why I took it. Not to say "I know everything", but I'm such an avid reader that I didn't think I'd get much out of the courses. But the few things that were news to me were fantastic. And the courses are considered continuing ed for vets, vet techs, etc. so I wanted to know what they were reading.

I thought they were worth taking.

thats awesome! if you need an incubator you can make one out of a styrofoam cooler and some other stuff theres videos on youtube and it wasnt all that exspensive we hatched and raised some baby ducks because we bought some baby ducks and the guy gave us some fertalized eggs, all the ducks live on a farm now with a heated barn, lake and plenty of food!