Not Buying Kaytee Pellets Anymore

Margaret wrote:

I checked label of my fids pellets. I don't see that glue-something, uff!
Kayla, it took me really a looong time to make budgies eats pellets. I simply slowly cheated them with less seeds- very slowly, to not starve them

That's what I'm doing. Right now, we're at about 60% pellets and 40% seed.

They have little bitty pellets...is that what you're going with to try to fool them?

MandaDPanda wrote:

They have little bitty pellets...is that what you're going with to try to fool them?

I mix a couple of brands of pellets together that are different sizes. It looks a lot like the seed mix in color and size.

My two cents on pellets.....

I've tried most products ~ Zupreem, Roudybush, Lafeaber, Harrisons, Totally Organic, Kaytee, Pretty Bird..... Do read the ingredients and pick one that is healthy and as I was informed today if you find one that your bird(s) like don't change it.

My Hyacinths like Harrisons (Piaui likes Zupreem too), some of them like Zupreem Fruit Blend (yeah I know sugar...) and none like Roudybush or Kaytee.

Don't for portion control too! Spent a good deal of time talking to Marc & Karen of Foster Parrots about that today. Will do a separate post about that after I confirm the measurements.

Julsiebean wrote:

I cannot wait to walk into the bird store I do business with and be all "Yo. This have corn snot in it? Kthnx." HAHA!

Priceless!

And "corn snot"! Best way to start a Monday morning!

patdbunny wrote:

I won't mislead you guys. I'm pushing my own personal views here. Everyone has a line. I'm just saying that corn snot's my line.

I actually agree with you. A big problem with pet food is filler products. Most dog/cat/bird food is mainly made with byproducts. Its very important to read labels especially if you want your pets to live a long healthy life. Many health issues in pets are actually allergies to food and can be prevented by researching the things you are feedin them (This also goes for yourself, read labels before eating food). The only thing that is a downfall to keeping your pet healthy is the cost. I feed all of my fur brats Blue Buffalo which is insanly expensive (one month of dog food is 60 dollars and catfood is 40 for the dry stuff.... wet cat food is almost double; so lucky me im screwed because all of my pets are rescues and have special needs and strict dietary requirements).... So moral of my very long story is to educate yourself one what you are eating and feeding.

Q: When did filler become "healthy" for your pet?
A: When the advertisers told you it was. Beneful anyone? I'd feed that to my goat before I'd feed it to my dog!

I don't really know much about corn gluten meal, so I need to do some research before I comment on the "corn snot" (LOL). OTOH, I think it is just as much a mistake to reject "synthetic food" out of hand as it is to embrace it as the be-all and end-all. One of the articles Roz posted had a strong bias against "synthetic nutrients" arguing that a body knows the difference between lab-processed ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) and ascorbic acid found in fruit. I think that's not the right way to look at it. Ascorbic acid is ascorbic acid and the chemical processes involved in digestion and metabolism DON'T know the difference. HOWEVER, eating pure ascorbic acid is not the same thing as eating an orange. The vitamin C part is the same, but the overall nutritional context is not.

I like the idea of pellets, manufactured by companies genuinely striving to provide optimal nutrition, but it becomes increasingly clear to me that we are practically in the dark ages when it comes to avian nutrition. We're only a little better at human nutrition, really, it's still very often the bandwagon of the month. I do read labels, and I am turned off if it looks like a manufacturer "cheaped out" but I don't necessarily freak out if by-products are listed. With pet foods I actually rely more on brand reputation than I do for people food. Kaytee is on my "not-so-sure" list

But since pellets are an exact product developed from a very inexact picture of avian nutrition, I think feeding them in conjunction with ample fresh and whole foods is the best of all worlds. Now, if I could only get my birds to agree, they are more like Jack Sprat and his wife: Scotty eats pellets, but is not big on fruits and vegetables. He'd exist on almonds and grapes if we let him. Scooter, on the other hand, is quite diverse in his fruit and vegetable habits, but pellets are not his thing. He'd exist on corn and safflower seeds if he had free access to them, I think.

I really don't know what to think, are parrot pellets just modified chicken feed? or is some one really research the best diet?is it best because it contains all the right vit/min and the rest can be just fillers?

henpecked wrote:

I really don't know what to think, are parrot pellets just modified chicken feed? or is some one really research the best diet?is it best because it contains all the right vit/min and the rest can be just fillers?

I'm right there with you. Though I know the content of some of the big nutrients is super good, I'm not too sure about the rest. I guess that's why doing pellet and fresh is a good combo, so you know what's going in the food.

Quote :

I am turned off if it looks like a manufacturer "cheaped out"

That's actually my main dislike that Kaytee's started using corn snot. Corn's cheap as it is, now for them to go even cheaper with corn snot. It's about the money for them IMHO. I can't go with that.

I do agree with you that ascorbic acid is ascorbic acid, but like you said it's all the other stuff that's in eating an orange. For instance you can supplement calcium until you're blue in the face, but if you don't have the vitamin D and correct ratio of phosphorus all that calcium means nothing. Same idea.

REALLY GLAD YOU'RE HERE TO GIVE US A MORE COMPLETE PERSPECTIVE!

AAhhhhhh Now it feels like home here. Thanks Deborah/ScooterNScotty ! I needed that, a well thought out rebuttle that makes sense, whether we agree or not....... The pause (to think) that refreshes !

Aw shucks. I think it is an occupational hazard!

As I understand it, the first pellets were made by avian vets trying to find a better way to ensure more uniform nutrition and vitamin and mineral intake without resorting to putting stuff in the water. So I think there is a greater or lesser attempt to genuinely meet the needs of the "average parrot" with the formulations. (That's probably also true of chicken feed, although with commercial poultry the aim is going to be to hit a sweet spot between cost of feed and cost of replacing chickens or raising more of them because they are scrawny/poor layers). However, not only is there the argument that parrots come from a huge variety of environments, but I'm sure that the nutritional needs of the most well-studied species are not as well known as, say, the needs of dogs.

I'm actually not horrified by the presence of "filler" materials in pet foods. I'm more concerned with how MUCH filler and what the quality of it and the other ingredients is. Among other things, any pelleted or kibbled type of food needs some starchy ingredient to get it to stick together. It makes me crazy when I see dry cat food proclaiming proudly that it has no wheat corn or soy products! Then you read the label and instead it has potato, sweet potato, carrots, peas... which are just another way to get some starch in there to hold it together. Very few cats go around digging up tubers to consume. In some cases the "super healthy grain free" marketed foods have higher carbohydrate and lower protein than the currently denigrated Vet-recommended brands. I'm more concerned that there is a named protein source first on the ingredient list and that the ingredients are named. Likewise, with parrot pellets -- oh frankly, I'd buy almost anything they'll eat, but that aside -- I get a better warm fuzzy when there are named ingredients and things I recognize as vitamins and minerals high on the label.

Hey coldtrance,

Try feeding your furred animals pieces of boiled pork/beef liver. They are much more nutritious and cheaper than many processed soft foods.
My mom buys a pack of liver every once in a while and boils it for the dog.

GlassOnion wrote:

Hey coldtrance,

Try feeding your furred animals pieces of boiled pork/beef liver. They are much more nutritious and cheaper than many processed soft foods.
My mom buys a pack of liver every once in a while and boils it for the dog.

My parent's book keeper feeds her dog an all raw meat diet. Every day the dog has a variety of fish, poultry, and meats.

Roudybush website w/ articles on the cockatiel diet experiments:
http://www.roudybush.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=birdbrain.articles

Texas A&M:
http://vetmed.tamu.edu/schub0t/news/neonatal-parrot-nutrition
http://vetmed.tamu.edu/schub0t/research
Current research project: Dietary intake of captive and wild birds

Would be interesting to see their results of that study and others. Anyone have access to Journal of Avian Medicine and Surgery?

haha yeah my brats get the "barf" diet along with their pricey dry foods. My vet has them on a strict diet because one cat is prone to getting UTI's, the other cat has autoimmune (his skin attacks itself so hes on steroids that mess with his tummy) and my dog is allergic to corn and beef. But their main diet is raw chicken, rice and garlic (with other vet prescribed fun stuffs).

the fun part right now is learning how to keep my birds healthy. Shiva refuses to eat anything other than seed and millet. And right now Im weaning Shori onto pellet and attempting to provide fresh fruit and vegg to both but neither show interest and its frustrating me to the fullest.

I would personally not feed raw chicken sourced in the US unless I was slaughtering it myself or had a VERY trusted source. And I'd probably freeze it first as well. So much of our chicken is swimming in salmonella. Dogs and cats CAN get very ill from salmonellosis although they are less prone to it than humans.

I think the pluses and minuses of feeding an all-meat or BARF diet to cats and dogs are very similar to those of feeding parrots on a diet that does not include pellets. You have to work a lot harder to make sure all the vital nutrients are there. The animal has to eat all the things you offer and you likely have to supplement some nutrients as well. With cats, in particular, taurine is a problem. Birds it's calcium and vitamin A just for starters. The advantage to having it all in one package (commercial diet) is that you only have to get them eating one thing, not all the things they need for optimum nutrition. For those reasons and also because of time management, I chose to at least attempt to base the diet for all my critters on a high quality nutritionally complete commercial diet supplemented by fresh foods, rather than trying to assemble the nutritional equivalent from scratch.

In theory anyway. Scooter subsists mostly on fresh food and safflower seeds because he won't eat pellets. Scotty exists mostly on pellets on nuts because he won't reliably eat fresh foods other than grapes. C'est la guerre.

patdbunny wrote:

Would be interesting to see their results of that study and others. Anyone have access to Journal of Avian Medicine and Surgery?

I might at work, I'll check next week.

henpecked wrote:

Can't change right now , but it's something to check into, more research. :study:

I have tried Roudybush I did the research and love the product...but the birds refuse to eat it they have dumped it scooped it out and just let it sit I am a headstrong person but the Zon's have me beat
opinions are welcome